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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 8:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:45 am
Posts: 5
After trying several different methods to get a shared cockpit session working correctly in VATSIM, we've encountered a few bugs.

There are already several posts on this forum I'm aware of, but the methods listed do not seem to correct the problem. I'm content to wait for SB4 or FSInn 1.3, but if there is a solution in the meantime it would be nice to know where we went wrong. Here are the steps we took.

1. Pilot #1 created a MP session in FSX, with a shared aircraft.
2. Pilot #2 joined the session and aircraft, and we moved the aircraft to a gate.
3. Pilot #1 connected to VATSIM using ident CFABC
4. Pilot #2 connected to VATSIM using ident CFABC1, and observer mode checked.

The VATSIM controller helping us out said that he did not get a duplicate target, although both aircraft were listed as connected.

At this point everything seemed to be working, however both Pilot #1 and Pilot #2 saw a ghost (duplicate) aircraft on the shared aircraft.

Also, Pilot #2 also saw ghosts for every additional aircraft at the airport.

The post here: http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=13466 seemed to indicate the steps we took should have worked. It also mentions that similar callsigns, i.e. CFABC_2 , CFABC_OBS , CFABC_COP , would supress the ghosts as well. HOWEVER, FSInn does not support the " _ " as a callsign character.

As near as I can tell, the reason Pilot #2 saw ghosts of all aircraft was because he was seeing both the a/c connected to the host through VATSIM, as well as the same aircraft through his connection to VATSIM.

While the observer/ident mode seemed to work correctly from an ATC standpoint (no duplicate target or tag), the ident work-around did not seem to work correctly for Pilot #2. I am guessing he saw his own a/c in FSX, and Pilot #1 through VATSIM.

As to why Pilot #1 saw a duplicate aircraft when Pilot #2 connected as an OBSERVER/STEALTH, I have absolutly no idea. Unless the OBSERVER/STEALTH options in FSInn are not working correctly for FSX users, and Pilot #1 was seeing Pilot #2 through VATSIM as well.

NOTE : The VIP a/c package was NOT installed. I'm not sure if this could have caused any problems. All other A/C showed up as the default lear or boeing as per FSInn settings, and I cannot see how both are related - but wanted to give the full picture.

If this in uncorrectable right now, what I hope FSInn 1.3 and SB4 intigrate is a way for registered users to connect to VATSIM using VOICE only. Not as an observer that can see a/c (as FSX APPEARS to add VATSIM a/c to the copilot through the HOST) but just converse with ATC using VVL, preserving the in-aircraft COMM1/2 -> VVL connectivity.

Any thoughts, corrections or clarifications are appreciated. :D

P.S. I also thought I should add that we did get a little flying in, despite the nuisance problems, and I was impressed. FSX frame rates in multiplayer and VATSIM combined leaved a little to be desired on my modest system - but once the community and hopefully Microsoft sort out FSX's inherent problems - I can see room for amazing experiences online.

New VATSIM flyers can co-pilot with experienced users and learn the ropes. And with the second pilot to talk and control sub-systems, maybe multi-crew will become the norm on VATSIM.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:38 am
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1. turn off observer and stealth mode
2. turn off any FSX AI traffic via FSX menus
3. only use the callsign trick ( http://wiki.mcdu.com/fsinn/advanced#fsx_shared_cockpit )


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:58 am 
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Alex, thanks for the link - however we tried it again to night and still are encountering problems. To summarize tonights trial :

Pilot #1 & Pilot #2 disabled all AI traffic. (Which was done the first time as well.)
Pilot #1 hosted a MP session and shared a/c
Pilot #2 joined the session and a/c
Pilot #1 connected to VATSIM as CFABC. (as entered in settings>general>default callsign)
Pilot #2 connected to VATSIM as CFABC2.

Both pilots then saw a ghost a/c following their own. We tried a few other options, like using the ident technique for the VATSIM net specific callsigns. We also tried using observer and stealth modes after initally leaving them unchecked, and that didn't work either.

What was interesting was that Pilot #2 could see other a/c moving around when only Pilot #1 was connected to VATSIM.

Additionally when both pilots were connected to VATSIM there was ghosting for Pilot #1 (the host) affecting other a/c as well

Any more thoughts? I believe we are following the directions to the letter - if not could some one please elaborate. Has anyone actually completed a shared cockpit flight successfully?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:28 am
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Location: LFNA
the copilot must be set as observer to avoid ghosts.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:16 am 
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... the co-pilot has joined as an observer, as stealth, stealth/observer and neither, and it still didn't work. :(

I appreciate everyone's input...

... to those whom have already responded : have you actually gotten the shared cockpit to work correctly in FSX?

We have tried every combination possible but still end up with ghosts. Are there any other FSInn settings that need to be changed for this to work other than the general logon field and observer/stealth check boxes?

If there's anyone who has gotten this to work correctly in FSX, I'd like to ask for the exact steps taken if it's not too much trouble - maybe we're missing something else.

I also realize that there are some who may use gates.to and FS9 for which this has worked - but has anyone tested it in FSX?

FSX seems to handle the connection differently. Any comments from the developers or VATSIM team? The other posts available and even the responses to this thread have conflicting information - it' would be great to have some clarification. Maybe a detailed step-by-step could be stickied? :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:10 am 
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You allready got 2 responses from the development team. Yes here it is working perfectly.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 1:54 am 
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Alexander, thanks for the quick response, I didn't realize I was already getting the development teams input. :D

The two responses appeared to be in conflict with one another, and I was confused :

Benjamin Fels : " the copilot must be set as observer to avoid ghosts. "

Alexander Nolting : " 1. turn off observer and stealth mode "

Could you please clarify the exact settings that need to be used ? We have done both, and are still encountering ghosts.
We have also gone to the MCDU wiki site reference on shared cockpits and tried the following ident combinations :

CFABC , CFABC2
CFABC1 , CFABC2

Unfortunately none of them have worked for us either. Is it possible we have some other settings incorrect?

If this is convered in documentation somewhere, I apologize - I'm new to the VATSIM arena, and appreciate those sticking with this thread. :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:51 am
Posts: 7316
Location: USA
Many VATSIM users has used the Shared Plane feature of FSX with VATSIM.

http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php? ... shared+fsx

-- L. James

----------
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

_________________
sticky:
    Not a regular post, but a special thread/message stuck to the top with special meaning… containing important forum information.

For FSInn/VATSIM issues, please test the FSInn Installation sticky and linked FAQ. It really works!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:45 am
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Larry, Alex :

Thanks much for the help - however, we're still getting ghosts after trying all those settings and variations thereof.

Connecting to VATSIM, flying together, and talking to ATC are all non-issues, and the callsign naming device worked correctly on the VATSIM ATC side. The software otherwise is working great (and very nice to have as freeware, thanks FSFDT. ) I'm very perplexed as to why were still seeing duplicate aircraft.

Are there any other settings within FSInn that we might be missing besides the callsign convention?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:45 pm
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Hey there,

i am facing the same problems.

i know you did it 2 times, but can you again confirm that the following settings are right:

Player1: starts MP Sesssion FSX
Player2: joins this session, same Cockpit
Player1: (at gate) connects VATSIM in FSinn 1.2 => no observer, no stealth CALLSIGN=FDX45
Player2: connects VATSIM, observer checked in FSinn 1.2, CALLSIGN=FDX451

ATC only sees Player 1 FDX45, but both Player see a Ghost plane in Cockpit AND Ghosts on other Aircrafts.

Furthermore everything is slowing down, Player 1 OR Player2 has lags in setting Freq. for example.

Have i forgotten something so far?
Did you solve your Problem?

I searched the whole Internet, found nothing :(

Thanks for your help.

PS: excuse my bad english :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:02 am
Posts: 192
Location: Canada
My buddy and I tried Sharing cockpit lately and as a workaround to ghost aircrafts, Pilot #2 had to disable FSinn MP.

Give it a try!

_________________
Jean-Frederik Dion
VATCAN10 - CZUL Chief
EuroScope Beta Tester / Board of Designers
GVCCS Beta Tester
Image


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:51 am
Posts: 7316
Location: USA
Jean-Frederik Dion 819740 wrote:
My buddy and I tried Sharing cockpit lately and as a workaround to ghost aircrafts, Pilot #2 had to disable FSinn MP.

Give it a try!


Your partner, in this case, looses a lot of what flying online is all about. He wouldn't be able to taxi (for concern about crashing into other aircraft), he couldn't use the radar, report aircraft in site, etc.

It will be better for you guys to right click on the other person's plane in Inn plane to remove the ghost.

I'm trying to get this updated in the VATSIM wiki documentation so that I can use that as a referral. I'm waiting for a response from Mike Bevington.

In the meantime, please advise of any other problems you have and I'll try to address those issues and insure clarity of the full procedure in the rewrite of the Shared Cockpit steps.

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

_________________
sticky:
    Not a regular post, but a special thread/message stuck to the top with special meaning… containing important forum information.

For FSInn/VATSIM issues, please test the FSInn Installation sticky and linked FAQ. It really works!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:02 am
Posts: 192
Location: Canada
Disabling eachother's plane in FSinn PL window works fine indeed.

Though, pilot #2 still gets double planes for every other aircrafts (which is better than none, indeed)... but I thought the problem was that #2 gets planes from #1's session AND planes from VATSIM through FSinn... isn't that the case? If it is, would disabling FSinn MP disable also FSX session's MP?

_________________
Jean-Frederik Dion
VATCAN10 - CZUL Chief
EuroScope Beta Tester / Board of Designers
GVCCS Beta Tester
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:51 am
Posts: 7316
Location: USA
What are the two Call Signs that you and your copilot are using?

-- L. James

--
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames

_________________
sticky:
    Not a regular post, but a special thread/message stuck to the top with special meaning… containing important forum information.

For FSInn/VATSIM issues, please test the FSInn Installation sticky and linked FAQ. It really works!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 5:02 am
Posts: 192
Location: Canada
JZA7679 - JZA76791
CGMPH - CGMPH1
.. among others ...

_________________
Jean-Frederik Dion
VATCAN10 - CZUL Chief
EuroScope Beta Tester / Board of Designers
GVCCS Beta Tester
Image


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