display sectorlines

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

A quick question about sectorlines. I do understand the DISPLAY property of a sectorline which will display the line when 2 sectors are owned by different controllers. However, is it possible to display sectorlines between 2 sectors that you both own? or a sectorline between your own sector and a sector that's uncontrolled at that moment?

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

You can do that manually from the Display Dialog, Sector section, but you will have to do that every time you switch ES on. There is no auto function, the line will show when your sector and other sector, own by someone else if online (and of course you have defined a sector line ).

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

Thanks for the quick answer Todor. Yes I did notice I can enable the lines manually. Is there any chance this can be done automatically in a future version? Or at least saved in a settings file maybe?

[Martin Loxbo]

No expert here, but the way I understand it the sectorlines were created for the very purpose of showing where the boundaries between different controllers' sectors are. If you want a line permanently displayed it's probably better to define it in the sector file, and then you can edit the symbology settings if you want a thick line, for example. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong!

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

You're probably right about that Martin, and there is a certain logic to that point of view. However, having to define something in 2 places, 1 for logic and 1 for display, is usually bad for the ability to keep your information up to date. It will after all be necessary to update 2 files instead of 1 when something changes. That's why it would be better in my opinion to be able to display sectorlines even if 2 sectors are not controlled by different controllers.

Now that we are talking about it, the same information goes for SIDs and STARs. They need a definition in the ese file for functionality and a definition in a different format in the sct file if you want to display them. I do understand this probably has to do with backward compatibility with the sector file format etc, but it would be nice if such things have to be defined only once.

[David Saunders 818672]

rather than the lines just change your active sector colour to one that is slightly lighter or slightly darker than your active sector,

 

a little more than slighth, but this is just to show

 

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

Thank you for the suggestion David. Changing the background color is better than nothing, but to me the drawback is that it only shows the outer boundaries of your sector. For visual reference it might be nice to show for example TMA or CTR boundaries inside your sector too.

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

What I have done, is what Martin suggested, and it can be activated from the plugin as well.

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

I do understand there are multiple ways to display sectorlines already Todor.

 

1. I can manually enable sectorlines from the display settings

 

2. I can change the background colors between active and inactive sectors

 

3. I can put the lines I want in the sct file instead of the ese file.

 

These all have their own disadvantages in my opinion though:

 

1. The settings, asr or profile files do not save which lines I have enabled, so I need to set this up again every time I start Euroscope

 

2. This only shows outer borders and no inner borders

 

3. This means I have to copy all sectorlines to the sct file too and convert them to the different format that's used there. This can be a lot of work in the first place and means any changes in the airspace need to be updated in 2 places instead of 1.

 

So that's why I'm asking this question. The sectorlines are already there in the ese file, and Euroscope has the ability to draw them on the screen. So wouldn't it be possible in a future version to save which sectorlines you want to see? Either from the settings in Euroscope or from some extra definitions in the ese file.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

3. This means I have to copy all sectorlines to the sct file too and convert them to the different format that's used there. This can be a lot of work in the first place and means any changes in the airspace need to be updated in 2 places instead of 1.

 

So that's why I'm asking this question. The sectorlines are already there in the ese file, and Euroscope has the ability to draw them on the screen. So wouldn't it be possible in a future version to save which sectorlines you want to see? Either from the settings in Euroscope or from some extra definitions in the ese file.

Everything is possible, but not everything is supposed to be. SCT and ESE have different purposes. You are asking for the sectorlines to be used instead of the ARTCC sections of the SCT. That is where such borders are supposed to be. I don't see how breaking this functional split would give any benefit.

 

Displayed sectorlines not being saved is on purpose, because with a proper setup ES the SECTOR section in Display Dialogue was only introduced for ESE developers to be able to test changes to the ESE file. It is not supposed to be used during controlling. Of course you can use the sectorlines in a way they are not supposed to be used, but that does not justify a change to the intended behaviour for (not) saving.

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

I do understand your reasoning Stephan. The sectorlines are not meant to be displayed so I should not want that.

 

However, can you explain me the reason for this design? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to define sectorlines in 1 place instead of 2 places with different formats? (not being stubborn on purpose, just trying to understand )

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

The sct formate is several years old, the ese was introduced to ES to allow additional features that are not based in the sct. As long as there is no completely new sectorfile formate, the sct remains the place to store such display data.

 

The sectorlines are part of the three dimensional sectors ES uses for calculations, the sectors are created by combining them as borders. That has nothing to do with what you display from the sct, and does not necessarily have to be identical with what you display from the sct or what is in the sct.

[Freek Vandeursen 1101105]

Thanks Stephan, I understand.

 

I can't say I agree with that completely but I'll let that rest