An Air Force One Escort Flight from KADW(Camp Springs, MD)

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

I want to do an escort flight with me using Air Force One and about 3 to 5 people escorting VC-25A(me) and this would be done using FSX or FS9 and if you need me to come up with the flightplan I will as well.

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

Please choose one below:

 

A)

Departure: KADW Andrews AFB/NAF (USA) FL range: 320 - 400 Destination: 1325.2 nm

Arrival: KDEN Denver Intl (USA)

Route: AML J149 FWA J64 WHETT J30 JOT J146 IOW J10 OBH J100 ELJAY LANDR5

 

B)

Departure: KADW Andrews AFB/NAF (USA) FL range: 300 - 400 Destination: 2021.6 nm

Arrival: KLAX Los Angeles Intl (USA)

Route: AML J149 EYTEE J6 COLNS J134 STL J19 TRAKE J110 ELSTO J134 SCAWT J19 BUM J110 ALS J44 RSK J64 TBC J128 RUSTT

 

C)

Departure: KADW Andrews AFB/NAF (USA) FL range: 180 - 450 Destination: 836.7 nm

Arrival: KMIA Miami Intl (USA)

Route: IRONS V376 RIC CHS J174 MILIE J79 BEENO J103 OMN

[Stephen Richey 985064]

I don't believe this is allowed unless you are part of one of the recognized special operations organizations per VATSIM regulations.

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

Wat r u talking about?

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

http://www.vatsim.net/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&file=fileadmin/docs/coc/vatsim_specialops.pdf&t=1271526759&hash=1b36b3d3522e039c8ce70a66a64d98cf

 

check there, see if its listed or not

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

Well wat VSO do I have to be apart of to do such thing?

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

since you want to fly that air force 747 with escorts, i'd say vUSAF or SimAF, both fly it.

 

altho you should also know that its not as easy as join and fly. the vSOA's are held to very high standards and theres lots of training involved before you get to do something like that

[Ross Carlson]

For some reason, I thought that military escorts were fine without being in a vSOA, provided the aircraft being escorted was willing. After reading that docomeent, however, it definitely says that escorting aircraft falls within the realm of a vSOA event. It even says that anything military or paramilitary in nature is a vSOA event.

 

Does that mean anyone flying Air Force One without being in a vSOA group is violating VATSIM policies, since Air Force One is a military aircraft on a military mission?

 

And I've already violated that policy because I've simulated Civil Air Patrol missions on VATSIM prior to flying them real-world. That docomeent puts search and rescue operations under vSOA jurisdiction.

 

Obviously, at the end of the day, the VP Special Operations is going to use common sense and good judgment here ... the question is whether or not Brandon's desired escort flight would cause the VP SOA to say "no" or "go ahead". I'd say the best thing to do, like always, is just ask.

[Chris McGee]

I agree with Ross on this one. Just a couple days ago a few friends and I were flying some formation stuff. None of us are a member of a VSOA. I remember being yelled at by a Virtual USAF guy for using an air force call sign. Pretty intense stuff for a network created for fun. I had no idea there were rules in place like that.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

civi formations are fine. (last i checked)

 

if it involves military aircraft tho, thats another issue.

 

ross, i also fly some CAP stuff every now and then its got its limits, flying search patterns isnt one of them. it crosses the line the minute it becomes an active operation. kyle can probably elaborate on that one. my understanding was that it becomes "operational" when it involves multiple aircraft/agencies or you cordon off a piece of airspace to do it. otherwise its just you flying.

 

the callsigns, last i remember theyre not reserved. you shouldnt get pm'd by anyone arguing telling you that you cant use it. as long as your flying A to B, its fair game.

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

So can I fly AF1 with an escort on a civil mission but still taking off from the home base a going to a Intl airport?

[Stephen Richey 985064]

So can I fly AF1 with an escort on a civil mission but still taking off from the home base a going to a Intl airport?

 

If it's a SAM flight (Special Air Missions; the Air Force designation for VIP flights, including Air Force One operations), it is by definition not a "civil mission". It's a military flight. Like someone said, talk to Kyle Ramsey. He's the expert on this subject.

 

BTW, normally SAM flights are not flown as "formation" flights. That is to say the fighters are not normally cruising at the wingtips except for photo ops and such. I am not an expert on the exact operations but this is what I was told by a LTC with the DC Air National Guard when I was stationed at Andrews. As he put it, "Most of the time, someone on the plane would not know we were there."

[Kyle Ramsey 810181]

Got your PM, I'll answer it here for all to see.

 

The best advice I can give is to focus on the activity, not the airframe. Can someone fly Air Force 1 from Andrews to Austin? Sure, happens daily (not that route but somewhere nearly every day an A01 flies the VATSIM skies somewhere). Can you fly an F-16 from Andrews to Austin? No, but only because you'll hae to land at aleast once for more gas. Doing an air refuel is clearly covered by VSOA so you'd need to land. Can 5 buddies in F-16's fly together from Andrews to Austin? Maybe. And here is why VSOAs exist.

 

Are there procedures that if followed properly this sort of activity is safe, educational, and fun? Absolutely. They are kind of special but they are known and they are trained to VSOA pilots as a part of their right to fly those missions. When everyone knows what to do, when to do it, and what you have to ask for then it just adds to the vareity of aviation activites available on VATSIM. Hence the "Special" part of Special Ops on VATSIM. These organizations exist so this type of flying can go on daily on VATSIM, and it is through the training and practice the VSOAs do gives them a special priviledge to perform somewhat special operations. Lacking that training opens the door for all sorts of problems.

 

In the case of this mission profile the airframes don't matter but the activity does. You propose to place one B747 in flight with a small swarm of your friends in F-16's buzzing around you for a 1700 NM trip (remember that gas thing with F-16's, and you can't air tank), 5-7 ATC targets on their scopes.

 

There are rules and procedures to be followed when doing such an operation, expectations ATC has for instance on how you handle all these airplanes in such close proximity. Some of this is simple, some of this not, but to maximize your fun this is best done after you receive the confidence of training so you do know the procedures, you can do them within VSOAs where your fighters would be met on a tight schedule by multiple tankers in a well coordinated operation of a A01 flight or replacement jets would arrive from air bases along the route. They know they don't get any special privledge over other aircraft with regard to radar services, etc., they know how to do the rest and not injure anyone else's good time on VATSIM and enjoy that military flight experience.

 

So, the shorter answer here is I think what you propose is too far on the miitary operations side to not be covered by VSOA regs. For long range group flights using similar airframes in capability I think you'll find more enjoyable at a more relaxed pace than mil ops. If you still have a burning desire to make this flight sign up for any of our great VSOAs who fly such a mission profile.

 

More questions? You can shoot me a PM or post it here.

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

well where can I sign up for it?

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

http://www.vatsim.net/network/communities/v-airlines/

[Brandon Daly 1117524]

Thanks Kyle, I joined the SIMAF thanks for the reference

[Finley Howard Stevens 1006]

over at the VUSAF we fly airforce one and escort it ill post pics in the screenshots forum!

[Robbie Nauffts 1045788]

over at the VUSAF we fly airforce one and escort it ill post pics in the screenshots forum!

 

You should also let him know that the guy who flies AF1 also has to have 250 hours with the vUSAF flying a transport aircraft with no incidents on his record. It's one of their most prestigious positions so the new guy will have a few rungs to climb to get in that seat.

[Finley Howard Stevens 1006]

over at the VUSAF we fly airforce one and escort it ill post pics in the screenshots forum!

 

You should also let him know that the guy who flies AF1 also has to have 250 hours with the vUSAF flying a transport aircraft with no incidents on his record. It's one of their most prestigious positions so the new guy will have a few rungs to climb to get in that seat.

 

 

Yeah i learnt that just after i posted it oops.