Most Extreme Airports TV show on tonight

[Matthew Miller]

New episode on the History Channel on tonight. On at 8:00EST. Check TVGuide for more info regarding this show.

 

-thank you

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Interesting, thank you.

[Richard Gerrish]

Yup got it set to record looks like its gonna be good

[Julian Hoffman 850174]

I don't know how I felt about the show... a couple of them were the old standbys, such as Kai-Tak, and of course the airport with the ski-jump runway (doubt FS models that correctly :'( ), but the others were rather disappointing. Gibraltar, though interesting, is not "extreme" from a pilot's perspective, or even from a general danger perspective. Even more disappointing to me was, from the beginning, I was just WAITING for Aspen to pop up on that list, being generally accepted as the toughest airport in the US, and instead they talk about Eagle?? I've flown into both, multiple times, in real life, and there's no comparison. Eagle has many of the same challenges, but Aspen takes them further, and adds to it with a MUCH shorter runway length, steeper descent angle, etc. I feel they could have done their research just a LITTLE bit more before the show.

 

However, if anybody has good scenery for the ski-jump airport, or the airport with the runway extending onto pillars, I'd love to have it!

[Stephen Richey 985064]

WAITING for Aspen to pop up on that list, being generally accepted as the toughest airport in the US,

 

I would place money on the River Visual into DCA being much technically tougher. Juneau, Dutch Harbor, Gunnison, Adak and several others are all far more challenging than KASE. Aspen is only a problem in really bad weather (especially with pushy clients in the back who HAVE TO make it to Aspen for dinner) or in the event of a go-around. I will agree that it is much more risky than Eagle.

 

 

BTW, the "ski-jump" airport (it's not a ski jump by the way) is Courchevel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courchevel_Airport

[Richard Gerrish]

keep in mind they are/were billing this as a series. some of the airports that didn't make the show this time around could very well make the next one

[Brad Littlejohn]

I only got as far as #10 - #6 before heading to bed last night, so don't spoil those for me yet!

 

I'd be shocked if Tenzing-Hillary was not listed, especially if Courchevel was! And I agree with Aspen over Eagle-Vail.

 

Here is all of what AVSIM has for Madeira.

 

BL.

[Harold Rutila 974112]

I think the River Visual 19 is a walk in the park compared to the Roaring Forks Visual in ASE. Procedure wise, maybe they're the same, but you have to factor in (in addition to visual ground reference points) visual separation between aircraft flying in to Runway 15 and aircraft departing Runway 33, which is in effect every day the airport is open. I guess the only thing that makes ASE a little easier procedure-wise is vertical guidance with the Runway 15 PAPI, but at 3.55 degrees it is steeper than usual.

 

What surprises me most about Aspen is that despite its intense piloting procedures (most airlines that fly there require extensive supplemental training), apparently it's not that difficult of an ATC facility. The FAA ranks it a Level 5 out of 12 levels of ATC facility designations. My home airport is a Level 6. Weird.

 

I wish I would've seen this in time to record it. Maybe they'll put it up on demand on the cable company or online. Otherwise I'll definitely have to start watching midway!

[Manuel Manigault]

hmmm...... I don't agree with that. I have flown both on VATSIM and the River Visual is much more difficult in my opinion. Following the river through it's twists and turns and then turning right 40 degrees just before landing on rwy 19 while making sure not to be too high is a challenge. With the Roaring Forks Visual, the major difficulty to me is the steeper than normal descent.

 

That being said though, if you have to go around on either approach the Roaring Forks Visual would be harder to me. Flying runway heading on the Potomac would be much easier than a steep climb and avoiding 9,000 - 13,000 ft mountains!

[Steven Caffey]

Of course RW if you muck something up on the River Visual into DCA, there's also a chance you die, but via F-16

[Nate Johns]

What surprises me most about Aspen is that despite its intense piloting procedures (most airlines that fly there require extensive supplemental training), apparently it's not that difficult of an ATC facility. The FAA ranks it a Level 5 out of 12 levels of ATC facility designations. My home airport is a Level 6. Weird.

 

Minor thread-jack here... ATC level doesn't necessarily directly translate to difficulty, just traffic count (though they usually have some correlation). When you think about ski season and how the planes are jammed in there for the all-day opposite direction ops, well, I couldn't imagine the complexity of keeping holding stacks going for that, getting departures out in the gaps between arrivals, dealing with RIL arrivals, and making full use of an extremely limited chunk of airspace.

 

Summer at ASE is probably a cakewalk... winter would be a whole nother story.

 

~Nate

[Thomas Mathieu 998318]

Give it a few days, someone probably DVR'ed the program and put it on you tube.

 

Oops I think I saw 4 videos posted in the last 20 hours.

[Shane Lorigan 1080266]

On Courchevel

The LLH scenery definitely gives you a sense of the runway sloping

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Is KSAN actually so dangerous? It seems surprising.

[Stephen Richey 985064]

Is KSAN actually so dangerous? It seems surprising.

 

It's still dealing with the stigma of the PSA mid-air collision of the 1970s. The airspace is very busy and very crowded between all the airline, GA and military traffic. It's only dangerous if you have people not following the rules or not paying attention, but then again, that can be said for nearly every airport.

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

I see. It didn't strike as that exceptionally 'extreme'. A lot of airports are extremely crowded, hard to see what makes it special. It seems almost safer than others considering that there has only been one accident.

[Stephen Richey 985064]

A lot of airports are extremely crowded, hard to see what makes it special. It seems almost safer than others considering that there has only been one accident.

 

Only one Part 121 accident. There have been plenty of crashes in the San Diego area over the years. Part of the issue is not only that SAN is a single runway, but the fact that there are something like a half dozen airports (Miramar MCAS, Gillespie Field, Montgomery Field, North Island, Brown, and Imperial Beach NOLF to name the ones I recall off the top of my head) in and immediately adjacent to the controlled airspace surrounding it. It's just a very busy and very complicated set of departure and arrival routes for IFR traffic, combined with a lot of VFR traffic.

[Stephen Richey 985064]

*double post*

Edited July 23, 2010 at 07:13 AM by Guest

[Stephen Richey 985064]

*triple post!*

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

Ah, I see how that creates a bit of a challenge.

[Julian Hoffman 850174]

As far as the River Visual goes (and I live in DC), it's really not that hard. When it comes to doing it on VATSIM (or more specifically, FS), it's a LOT harder than in real life. The lack of real world visuals (aka looking out a window at real ground) makes it a lot harder, because especially at night, you can't tell where the river is necessarily. In real life, this isn't the case. There are several beacons, and unlike in FS, you don't have to worry about terrain mesh and autogen, there are buildings all around the river, it is VERY obvious. Having flown both several times, there is no comparison.

 

That being said, as far as being shot down if you stray off the river, it's actually kind of hard to bust the DC ADIZ when flying the river visual. It's departing where you sometimes have issues, but that's only if you don't turn (reading your laptop screens and forget to do so?). In any case, nothing compared to the technical difficulties of KASE.

[Charan Kumar]

Caught a retelecast today, surprised that Gibraltar made it but not Paro, Bhutan. Paro is one of the few airports where there are like only a few pilots in the world who are certified to fly in there. Lukla rightfully took the first place...found some interesting facts about the airport and the area though.

[Manuel Manigault]

That's true Julian. I lived in DC for seven years. There were always stories about how pilots violated the approach by straying over the Palisades or over NOVA. I live in Colorado now and have visited Aspen. Aspen is surrounded by mountains and with the backcourse departures, I am sure in the real world the approach is very hard. From a VATSIM perspective though, I think the River Visual is much harder.

[Julian Hoffman 850174]

Definitely from a VATSIM perspective, since you can't look out the window. Something else to note about Aspen is that, even with ActiveSky, mountain winds and shear aren't simulated accurately enough to give you the real feel for how treacherous that place is.

[Darrol Larrok 1140797]

You can look out the window in VATSIM and follow the river...?