Steve Kirks 1252923 Posted November 7, 2013 at 03:59 PM Posted November 7, 2013 at 03:59 PM Just happend DEN_TWR: DAL***, Cleared to KMSP airport via, YELLO6 departure, Redwood Falls transition then as filed, Maintain 10000 expect FL350 10 min after departure, departure on me, sqk 0615. DAL***: Since when did tower controller take departures. (comes in static) DEN_TWR: If you cannot make 10,000 for the initial departure, it is not my problem. DAL***: *facepalm* Please turn up the volume on your mic next time. As I indicated multiple times in my transmissions, you were about 2x3 meaning I could barely hear you and you were quite broken as well. Additionally, and somewhat more importantly, the attitude you indicate was not present. Thanks for flying ZDV and I look forward to seeing you next time! Sincerely, DEN_E_TWR I'll bite...I don't get it...would appreciate a nicely placed facepalm today or to be let in on the joke... Steve Kirks 1252923 ZME S2 Usually MEM_TWR ZLA I-3 rated pilot Usually on as: FDX4345 in a PMDG 777 N533ET in a Pilatus PC-12 N323VB in a Lancair Legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Christie Posted November 9, 2013 at 05:31 AM Posted November 9, 2013 at 05:31 AM Heard in the Worldflight 777 sim on approach to Halifax APP - Qantas 15 cleared the ILS approach 23, If you can make it! APP - OJU Right heading 10 deg Cleared ILS approach 23 OJU - APP we are going to need more than 10 deg APP ok make it 20 Such a great laugh and good to get some casual controllers, some have been too serious! Kirk Christie - VATPAC C3 VATPAC Undercover ATC Agent Worldflight Perth 737-800 Crew Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford Lee Posted November 13, 2013 at 09:37 PM Posted November 13, 2013 at 09:37 PM Pilot: You're on Unicom Me: Negative sir, Unicom is 122.8, this is 124.8 Pilot: Oh. Brad Lee ZJX ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Taylor 1268798 Posted November 19, 2013 at 11:18 PM Posted November 19, 2013 at 11:18 PM Flight Plan as filed: SBI SJI J37 MGM AMG AMG2 Pilot: IAH Tower Deltaxxxx request clearance to JAX, ready to copy Tower: Deltaxxxx cleared to the Jacksonville International Airport via the Sabine P[Mod - Happy Thoughts] 3 departure Leeville transition direct Semmes then as filed, maintain 4000 expect FL370 ten minutes after departure, departure is 120.05 squawk 4503 Pilot: Roger, cleared to Jacksonville as filed, maintain 4000, 370 in ten, 120.05 squawking 4503 Tower: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted November 19, 2013 at 11:33 PM Posted November 19, 2013 at 11:33 PM if he didnt file it, you forgot to tell him you had an amendment and whether he could accept the routing changes first, very important step before issuing a clearance especially an RNAV departure. you cant just change someones route, clear them without alerting them to the change and expect it to work same reason why pilots dont immediately blurt out their requests without alerting the controller to be ready for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Lewis Posted November 19, 2013 at 11:59 PM Posted November 19, 2013 at 11:59 PM I would disagree with that. You do not need to ask then if they can fly a route before you give them the route. Don't waste the time saying it twice. They can still say unable the XXX departure after the clearance. The controller should also know if they can fly the procedure based on the equipment suffix if filed correctly. The whole point of the full route clearance vs. abbreviated as filed clearance is to add amendments. The above pertains to United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Grafelman Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:09 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:09 AM I would disagree with that. You do not need to ask then if they can fly a route before you give them the route. Don't waste the time saying it twice. They can still say unable the XXX departure after the clearance. The controller should also know if they can fly the procedure based on the equipment suffix if files correctly.I agree and was actually in the process of typing more or less what Mr. Lewis said above. However, I also recognize that this is VATSIM and that it's (unfortunately) not safe to rely on all pilots being cognizant of how to fly their aircraft or do their due diligence in understanding ATC instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:19 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:19 AM yep, on VATSIM i prefer to error on caution because what tends to happen 9 times out of 10, you [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it, they dont even notice, then come takeoff time you are expecting them to do it and they go off in the other direction? in the end, we both wouldve contributed to that error cause i never checked to see if they could actually do it and made sure they knew they were no longer on their original routing youll use up less radio comms then if you just [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it and "hope" they got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Grafelman Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:26 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:26 AM Of course, even if they parrot back whatever you say, you're still not out of the woods yet... Me: Pilot1, turn left direct the Los Angeles VOR, resume LOOP6 departure Pilot1: Left direct LAX, resume the departure, pilot1 .... Me: Traffic alert, Pilot1, 1 o'clock and 5 miles, turn left heading 210 immediately. Pilot1: Uh, roger, turn left 210... ... Me: Pilot1, let's try again; turn left, I say again, left turn, direct LAX, resume LOOP6 Pilot1: Left direct LAX.. sorry, our FMC thought you meant the other left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:31 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 12:31 AM i love watching those loop6 departures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hoffman 1211539 Posted November 20, 2013 at 03:27 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 03:27 AM Of course, even if they parrot back whatever you say, you're still not out of the woods yet... That's honestly the biggest problem. I can deal with the readback "as filed" or the "unable," because that tells me "I have no clue what the heck you're talking about" and allows me to modify the clearance to something they can follow. I have even been known to thank pilots who say "unable." What I hate is when the pilot reads back "SSOXS3 departure" and then departs runway heading and says "but you never gave me a heading!" The reason I don't ask every single pilot if they can fly RNAV before issuing the departure is because if I have a whole bunch of pilots waiting for clearance, I'm not about to make them wait while I go back and forth with each pilot about their DP. That being said, I think I'm getting better at recognizing on initial contact which pilots are going to give me trouble so that I can do it step by step with them. Still a ways to go for me, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Lewis Posted November 20, 2013 at 06:19 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 06:19 AM you [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ign it, they dont even notice.. Yep which is why I listen carefully for the readback and request the amended portion of the route if they do not read it back the first time to make sure they got everything. The above pertains to United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenneth Bambach 1008842 Posted November 20, 2013 at 06:44 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 06:44 AM There are still some pilots out there who simply copy and paste their route from simroutes, etc. and have no idea what it means nor how to fly it. On a non-hybrid SID RNAV, the first waypoint can be given in the takeoff clearance i.e wind xxx @ xx, RNAV to SENOY, R/W 8R, cleared for takeoff. The pilot then needs to read back "RNAV to SENOY" to confirm that the FMC is properly configured for the first waypoint on the SID, especially when running parallel departures. When they dont read it back, or give the old pregnant pause with a "Huh?", chances are the pilot is in over his head with what he has filed....or copied and pasted Ken Bambach ZMA ATM VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Lewis Posted November 20, 2013 at 07:03 AM Posted November 20, 2013 at 07:03 AM Same at ATL we always ensure they read back the first RNAV waypoint as well. If we have to ask a second time and get the long pause....well radar vectors here we come and quickly shoot out a heading to fly. The above pertains to United States Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Kirks 1252923 Posted November 20, 2013 at 05:28 PM Posted November 20, 2013 at 05:28 PM Same at ATL we always ensure they read back the first RNAV waypoint as well. If we have to ask a second time and get the long pause....well radar vectors here we come and quickly shoot out a heading to fly. Same at ZME--Memphis has the ELVIS1 SID that is not RNAV and when it's shown to pilots, most get it. In general, keeping with the ZME "Southern Hospitality" motto, if they are unable to do either a standard RNAV or the ELVIS1, then it's "radar vectors to (first nav aid) then as filed". When I'm on as Ground and no one else is around, I try to use my best judgement. It seems silly to make the pilot spend an extra 10 minutes of precious "fun" time to pull charts and learn on the fly, when there's no one around to control him in the immediate vicinity. I ask first if they want some help picking out a better SID or route, and if they push back, it's "cleared as filed". I learned from Shez Ansari at ZLA that the best thing we can do is help a pilot *want* to come back and fly in our airspace again. If I'm pushy about routes and procedures when the airport and tower is empty, what will that pilot think of my ARTCC? During a busy time or an event, the "rules" are a little different I'm sure. I've hear Shez politely remind folks over and over again about the LOOP6 departure and the obstacle procedure plus the climbing right turn. When I'm on the scope, I try to "channel" that spirit and make it fun, but as realistic as the pilot can handle. Steve Steve Kirks 1252923 ZME S2 Usually MEM_TWR ZLA I-3 rated pilot Usually on as: FDX4345 in a PMDG 777 N533ET in a Pilatus PC-12 N323VB in a Lancair Legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Otero Posted November 20, 2013 at 07:03 PM Posted November 20, 2013 at 07:03 PM It seems silly to make the pilot spend an extra 10 minutes of precious "fun" time to pull charts and learn on the fly, when there's no one around to control him in the immediate vicinity. I ask first if they want some help picking out a better SID or route, and if they push back, it's "cleared as filed". A very good point. I fall in that category at times when I am "ATC hunting" and may have to place my plane in places I have never flown out from before and do not know their procedures. All I want is to fly under ATC and vectors are just fine - and sometimes, by the time I find the required charts ATC is gone or leaves shortly thereafter. You get to control, I get to fly, we get to do what we love. If I have to get a hold/delay, until you can get me in there, no worries. But please do not lecture me.I learned from Shez Ansari at ZLA that the best thing we can do is help a pilot *want* to come back and fly in our airspace again. If I'm pushy about routes and procedures when the airport and tower is empty, what will that pilot think of my ARTCC Very true. If the pilot can fly your instructions, then I fail to see the conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Yang Posted November 21, 2013 at 12:08 AM Posted November 21, 2013 at 12:08 AM Of course, even if they parrot back whatever you say, you're still not out of the woods yet... Me: Pilot1, turn left direct the Los Angeles VOR, resume LOOP6 departure Pilot1: Left direct LAX, resume the departure, pilot1 .... Me: Traffic alert, Pilot1, 1 o'clock and 5 miles, turn left heading 210 immediately. Pilot1: Uh, roger, turn left 210... ... Me: Pilot1, let's try again; turn left, I say again, left turn, direct LAX, resume LOOP6 Pilot1: Left direct LAX.. sorry, our FMC thought you meant the other left. The other left? Where are we, Chicago? How many lefts are there? Captain Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charan Kumar Posted November 21, 2013 at 12:18 AM Posted November 21, 2013 at 12:18 AM The other left? Where are we, Chicago? How many lefts are there?Well, if it was San Francisco, 3 rights would make a left, ask any local When is your next Flight||VATSIM HitSquad Member, ZOA/ZAK/GANDER/P1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Yang Posted November 22, 2013 at 01:34 PM Posted November 22, 2013 at 01:34 PM The other left? Where are we, Chicago? How many lefts are there?Well, if it was San Francisco, 3 rights would make a left, ask any local I've only been to San Francisco once, but I never left the airport. Captain Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Meese Posted November 24, 2013 at 05:46 PM Posted November 24, 2013 at 05:46 PM Got this one today, well inside controlled airspace: ", request to cancel ATC services" Me: ... "approved." (A very new pilot, didn't have time to help him out anyways). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Zhong Posted November 24, 2013 at 06:14 PM Posted November 24, 2013 at 06:14 PM ", request to cancel ATC services" That would be the way to get past all of the traffic during a busy fly-in! David Zhong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Yang Posted December 13, 2013 at 04:20 AM Posted December 13, 2013 at 04:20 AM ATC: "Radar contact, say altitude." Me: "Altitude." ATC: "Okay....altitude back to you....climb and maintain 7,000." Me: "Climb and maintain 7,000." ATC: "I was waiting for the day when that actually happened. Congratulations. You won." Me: "Thank you." Captain Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davor Kusec 990407 Posted December 14, 2013 at 06:13 PM Posted December 14, 2013 at 06:13 PM ATC: "Radar contact, say altitude."Me: "Altitude." ATC: "Okay....altitude back to you....climb and maintain 7,000." Me: "Climb and maintain 7,000." ATC: "I was waiting for the day when that actually happened. Congratulations. You won." Me: "Thank you." And now you don't have an accurate radar identification and you crash into another aircraft. Davor Kusec Air Traffic Director | Northeast Region VATUSA Supervisor | VATSIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Zhong Posted December 14, 2013 at 07:03 PM Posted December 14, 2013 at 07:03 PM Well I hope he does, since the controller said "radar contact". The only thing that's missing now is the Mode C Level check so all the controller has to do is ignore the readout and ask the pilot to "report reaching". David Zhong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Stacy 863082 Posted December 15, 2013 at 09:51 AM Posted December 15, 2013 at 09:51 AM ATC: "Radar contact, say altitude."Me: "Altitude." ATC: "Okay....altitude back to you....climb and maintain 7,000." Me: "Climb and maintain 7,000." ATC: "I was waiting for the day when that actually happened. Congratulations. You won." Me: "Thank you." I'm still waiting for the day when that happens to me, so I can say "N1234, say Cancel IFR" Christopher Stacy Air Traffic Manager | Houston ARTCC VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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