Amrit Ayalur 1138518 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:06 AM Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:06 AM This is a bit off-topic, but I have a question regarding RVMs. I managed to get in contact with the Hilo Facility director and I requested the Hilo TRACON RVMs. He asked me what loop I wanted (1 hr or 1 day). What exactly is a loop? Thanks, -Amrit HCF_AA/S3 Mentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted June 1, 2011 at 03:30 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 03:30 PM The HCF guy might be confused, because it sounds like he's trying to send you videos of the traffic flow over 1 hour or 1 day. The problem with contacting the towers/TRACONs/ARTCCs directly is that the people you talk to often don't have a clue as to what you're asking for. Most of the people who pick up the phone are the supervisors or a secretary. FOIA gets upset when sups and controllers release docomeents and information like RVMs directly to people requesting them because they are not authorized FOIA clearance officials. The best way to obtain the information is to go through FOIA, even though it usually takes a long time. My request for my home airport SOP took several months, but an SOP request for a ZDV airport is taking about 3 weeks. But I'd much rather go through FOIA than deal with the ambiguity of the people at the FAA facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Geckler Posted June 1, 2011 at 04:51 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 04:51 PM I just recently received my FOIA request after a month of waiting. Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:18 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:18 PM off topic, but its good to see folks using the freedom of information act i once had my cadets in CAP write the airlines and airports in the NJ/NY area using the FOIA to get information. cant remember of the top of my head what some of the requests were, but they did all eventually get a response with the info, which none of them ever thought would happen cause they really didnt know they could, they actually thought i was nuts when i gave them the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignment ok back to your scheduled posting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit Ayalur 1138518 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:39 PM Author Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:39 PM How can I use the FOIA to get these materials? HCF_AA/S3 Mentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:51 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:51 PM all explained here http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/nsa/foia/tips.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Heiser 1052801 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:53 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:53 PM CLICK THIS AND THE RVMs WILL COME OUT YOUR PRINTER AND APPEAR ON YOUR HARD DRIVE!!! Hehe just kidding! If it were only that simple. But seriously that link is what you're looking for. Pick the appropriate service center, fill out the form, and wait. AJ Heiser Senior Controller, ZLA ARTCC "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." ~ Jim Horning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit Ayalur 1138518 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:54 PM Author Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:54 PM Thanks! I just submitted the request to the western region ATO, but i put the maximum amount i was willing to pay as 0$. HCF_AA/S3 Mentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wolcott 814793 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:55 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:55 PM 30 days is reasonably fast when dealing with FOIA/U.S. Government. Not only do they have to forward the request to the facility you want the info from, but they typically send the information off to Legal for their review to ensure there is not any information which may be considered sensitive to National Security. Once that review is complete, they will forward your information to you, after any redaction conducted by legal. Anyhow, for those of you who are wondering, FOIA for requesting FAA docomeents, records, and radar video map data may be located here: FAA FOIA Website Click on the region you want the data from, as an example, NY Area (ZNY/N90) would come from the eastern region, then at the bottom of the contact information you will see text with a link that reads: "Make an electronic request: ATO Eastern Service Area FOIA" Click on the link and fill out the information, submitting your FOIA request electronically. Be sure to spell out exactly what it is you are requesting. In the case of Radar Video Map data, you must specify you are requesting Radar Video Map data in Electronic .DAT format, as well as electronic .PDF format. You must also specify the exact facility your want the data from, using the name of the TRACON/ATCT and preferably the FAA ID of said facility, IE New York TRACON = N90. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit Ayalur 1138518 Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:59 PM Author Posted June 1, 2011 at 05:59 PM I didnt specify the file format. I requested the RVMs for the honolulu, maui, and hilo sectors. I requested the SOPs for these facilities as well. Should I resubmit a request with the file formats specified? HCF_AA/S3 Mentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Heiser 1052801 Posted June 1, 2011 at 06:04 PM Posted June 1, 2011 at 06:04 PM Yes. I made that mistake my first time through and got everything in PDF only. AJ Heiser Senior Controller, ZLA ARTCC "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." ~ Jim Horning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit Ayalur 1138518 Posted June 1, 2011 at 06:13 PM Author Posted June 1, 2011 at 06:13 PM Resubmitted. Thanks everyone! HCF_AA/S3 Mentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Pryor 810138 Posted June 2, 2011 at 03:05 AM Posted June 2, 2011 at 03:05 AM Those considering FOIA you can expect to pay a reasonable fee. If you put $0 you risk them declining your request or sending a letter with the estimated costs. Fees can include a research fee, and per page fee. Video or disc duplication can also get costly. In the end most agencies want compensated for the costs it takes for their staff to do the function. Example for work we FOIA'd a police report with audio and video, grand total $156.23 for about 500 pages, 3 audio discs, and 1 video disc. An autopsy report cost us about $2, so it can vary. Here is some info from the FAA on the topic: http://www.faa.gov/foia/fee_category/ Happy hunting! Brian Pryor - (810138) Vice President Marketing & Communications (VATGOV10) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted June 2, 2011 at 05:11 AM Posted June 2, 2011 at 05:11 AM In my experience with FAA FOIAs, they have both been free, but that was just to get a copy of an SOP. I did, however, put $20 in that line just in case. I'd [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume that's because the research time is relatively low. The only thing in those SOPs they don't want the general public to know is typically the landline numbers to the control room consoles and so forth. But yeah, if we're talking RVMs, it may take longer and you may end up getting charged. And note to FOIA requesters: When FOIA leaves you a voicemail and e-mail that they need to ask you some questions about your request, don't be nervous about being denied the request. I had an experience with this when my fee category was incorrect, and they wanted to call and let me know. It was not a TSA-style investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Evins 976213 Posted June 2, 2011 at 04:04 PM Posted June 2, 2011 at 04:04 PM I've payed up to $200 for an FAA FOIA. Alex Evins Senior Controller, New York ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Heiser 1052801 Posted June 2, 2011 at 06:05 PM Posted June 2, 2011 at 06:05 PM The most I've paid is around $110. My last RVM request however, was free. AJ Heiser Senior Controller, ZLA ARTCC "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." ~ Jim Horning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrit Ayalur 1138518 Posted June 2, 2011 at 08:27 PM Author Posted June 2, 2011 at 08:27 PM Yeah, my mom said the Western Region ATO called my house this morning while I was out. I did get an email that my request was being processed. HCF_AA/S3 Mentor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Geckler Posted June 2, 2011 at 08:49 PM Posted June 2, 2011 at 08:49 PM From my understanding, unless you request a physical copy of things, it's typically free. Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Rodgers 910155 Posted June 2, 2011 at 09:36 PM Posted June 2, 2011 at 09:36 PM I just recently received my FOIA request after a month of waiting. Will this FOIA be landing on my hard drive at some point for work? Kyle Rodgers The content of this post, unless expressly written, refers only to those procedures in the United States of America, following the Federal Aviation Administration Regulations thereof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Geckler Posted June 2, 2011 at 11:32 PM Posted June 2, 2011 at 11:32 PM I just recently received my FOIA request after a month of waiting. Will this FOIA be landing on my hard drive at some point for work? If you'd like it, but it's unrelated to our project Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Bartels Posted June 4, 2011 at 03:57 AM Posted June 4, 2011 at 03:57 AM Thanks for all of this information. I just submitted my request. I'll wait paitently for the FBI/CIA/TSA to arrive on my doorstep You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Forever and always "Just the events guy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted June 5, 2011 at 04:44 AM Posted June 5, 2011 at 04:44 AM Another question for those familiar with FOIA. Once I've obtained the docomeent, is it solely for me to see, or am I free to redistribute it? I think it'd be odd to post real world SOPs and what not on our ARTCC website, but is there anything that would legally prevent me from doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrol Larrok 1140797 Posted June 5, 2011 at 04:48 AM Posted June 5, 2011 at 04:48 AM I'm not very familiar with FOIA itself, but my understanding is that if they're releasing it to you, then it's not cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ified as a secret docomeent. Since it's produced by the US government, it is automatically in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 Posted June 5, 2011 at 04:55 AM Posted June 5, 2011 at 04:55 AM all in the terms License to Use Materials Posted On Web Site You may copy, reproduce and distribute materials from this site pursuant to this nonexclusive, limited license, provided that: 1. You maintain all copyright, trademark or other proprietary notices contained in any site content in the course of any use of such content. Copyright is not claimed as to any work of the United States government. 2. You cite the National Security Archive as the source of the materials in any reproduction, publication, distribution, or transfer of the materials and you link to the www.nsarchive.org Web site in any electronic reproduction, publication, distribution, or transfer of the materials. a) When reproducing, publishing, distributing, or transferring a published or unpublished docomeent in the National Security Archive collection, you credit the National Security Archive as the source of the docomeent. For your convenience, we provide citation standards [link] for unpublished and published docomeents in the National Security Archive collection. b) When reproducing, publishing, distributing, or transferring an article or section of the Web site in its entirety, you include the following statement: "These materials are reproduced from www.nsarchive.org with the permission of the National Security Archive." c) You may not edit or otherwise change the substance of the content in any reproduction, publication, distribution, or transfer of an article or section of the Web site that is credited to the National Security Archive, except that you may excerpt portions of the content with credit to the author, where applicable, and the National Security Archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Heiser 1052801 Posted June 5, 2011 at 09:08 AM Posted June 5, 2011 at 09:08 AM all in the terms License to Use Materials Posted On Web Site You may copy, reproduce and distribute materials from this site pursuant to this nonexclusive, limited license, provided that: 1. You maintain all copyright, trademark or other proprietary notices contained in any site content in the course of any use of such content. Copyright is not claimed as to any work of the United States government. 2. You cite the National Security Archive as the source of the materials in any reproduction, publication, distribution, or transfer of the materials and you link to the http://www.nsarchive.org Web site in any electronic reproduction, publication, distribution, or transfer of the materials. a) When reproducing, publishing, distributing, or transferring a published or unpublished docomeent in the National Security Archive collection, you credit the National Security Archive as the source of the docomeent. For your convenience, we provide citation standards [link] for unpublished and published docomeents in the National Security Archive collection. b) When reproducing, publishing, distributing, or transferring an article or section of the Web site in its entirety, you include the following statement: "These materials are reproduced from http://www.nsarchive.org with the permission of the National Security Archive." c) You may not edit or otherwise change the substance of the content in any reproduction, publication, distribution, or transfer of an article or section of the Web site that is credited to the National Security Archive, except that you may excerpt portions of the content with credit to the author, where applicable, and the National Security Archive. Problem is no one is getting their materials from the website provided in the above license. I'm not sure this answers the question. AJ Heiser Senior Controller, ZLA ARTCC "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment." ~ Jim Horning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts