Mark Smith 1119598 Posted January 26, 2012 at 03:25 AM Posted January 26, 2012 at 03:25 AM Can anyone confirm that the max Voice range is 400nm. And if it is, is there some way to extend it to 600nm? Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Kornel 964857 Posted January 26, 2012 at 03:42 AM Posted January 26, 2012 at 03:42 AM I don't think there's a range on voice. I believe that, for anyone that is able to see you, and who has you tuned on radio, and who has voice capabilities in their client, and who can connect to your voice channel, will be able to talk to you via voice. Are you maybe talking about the visibility range? A. Karl Kornel - vZID C1, FE, and Mentor Smoke Bomb! POOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todor Atanasov 878664 Posted January 26, 2012 at 05:11 AM Posted January 26, 2012 at 05:11 AM The voice range is generated by the servers, based on the type of facilities (e.g. TWR, APP, CTR and so on) and the altitude of the aircraft. As Karl said, there is a difference between visibility and radio range. EuroScope BETA Tester/Board of Designers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Smith 1119598 Posted January 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM Author Posted January 26, 2012 at 11:37 PM I don't think there's a range on voice. I believe that, for anyone that is able to see you, and who has you tuned on radio, and who has voice capabilities in their client, and who can connect to your voice channel, will be able to talk to you via voice.Are you maybe talking about the visibility range? The VIS range is 600NM, I am speaking of voice range. Well not sure why I can only chat with pilots within 400nm rings, even when my VIS range is 600nm. I send a contact me, and I get a chat message saying that I do not show up in the frequency list. To confirm, I have flown for controllers in the same airspace and we get the same results. I had to constantly switch VIS points to follow pilots in the North. So any info about this or someone to contact from Vatsim who can help me out, would be greatly Appreciated. Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Frias Posted January 27, 2012 at 12:48 PM Posted January 27, 2012 at 12:48 PM They are different things. In Portugal for instance I use 600nm VIS range but the hardcoded 600nm RADIO range (which cannot be adjusted) is insufficient for a tiny bit in the northern part. Therefore a second visibility point must be added. This will also create a second hardcoded 600nm RADIO range around that visiblity point. Miguel Miguel Frias Senior Instructor (I3) & Certified Pilot (P4), ZLA I-11 graduate Portugal vACC Training Director (ACCPT2), VATEUD Operations Director (VATEUD8) Portugal vACC, VATEUD, VATSIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Smith 1119598 Posted January 27, 2012 at 01:41 PM Author Posted January 27, 2012 at 01:41 PM They are different things. In Portugal for instance I use 600nm VIS range but the hardcoded 600nm RADIO range (which cannot be adjusted) is insufficient for a tiny bit in the northern part. Therefore a second visibility point must be added. This will also create a second hardcoded 600nm RADIO range around that visiblity point. Miguel It's the Edmonton FIR, and I have 4 vis points coded for 600nm..............I need 4 more and still would not have it all covered. It's probably the Biggest FIR on Vatsim. Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Frias Posted January 27, 2012 at 03:29 PM Posted January 27, 2012 at 03:29 PM That would require FSS instead of CTRs. As far as I know there's a max of 4 vis points. Miguel Miguel Frias Senior Instructor (I3) & Certified Pilot (P4), ZLA I-11 graduate Portugal vACC Training Director (ACCPT2), VATEUD Operations Director (VATEUD8) Portugal vACC, VATEUD, VATSIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Smith 1119598 Posted January 27, 2012 at 06:29 PM Author Posted January 27, 2012 at 06:29 PM That would require FSS instead of CTRs. As far as I know there's a max of 4 vis points. Miguel We have an FSS. Here in Canada FSS is an advisory frequency ONLY. We are not authorized to control aircraft. Still the same question unanswered....If the radar range is 600nm, why are we only able to communicate with aircraft at 400nm on Frequency? I might add, that the Winnipeg FIR has the same issue, however there are enough vis points to reach all of the FIR. So to some up, it's not VIS range or FSS, it's Radio Range. For some reason VIS range and Radio range are NOT the same. I guess we will have to deal with it, most FIR's and ARTCC'S do not have the huge airspace that we have to deal with, so I can see it's a very limited problem. Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Frias Posted January 27, 2012 at 09:44 PM Posted January 27, 2012 at 09:44 PM If you connect as Approach facility (even if connected for __CTR) it will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume a lower range. You might want to check that. VATSIM uses some FSS positions for special controlling purposed such as big supercenters and others. Eurocontrol, is an example of that. With the proper authorization you should be able to log on as CTR using FSS facility level which has a 1500nm range. Miguel Miguel Frias Senior Instructor (I3) & Certified Pilot (P4), ZLA I-11 graduate Portugal vACC Training Director (ACCPT2), VATEUD Operations Director (VATEUD8) Portugal vACC, VATEUD, VATSIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Smith 1119598 Posted January 27, 2012 at 11:32 PM Author Posted January 27, 2012 at 11:32 PM If you connect as Approach facility (even if connected for __CTR) it will [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume a lower range. You might want to check that. VATSIM uses some FSS positions for special controlling purposed such as big supercenters and others. Eurocontrol, is an example of that. With the proper authorization you should be able to log on as CTR using FSS facility level which has a 1500nm range. Miguel We have Edmonton coded correctly, we are set as CZEG_CTR and it is a center position and the Radar range is 600nm, So that is not the issue. Thanks anyway. Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Smith 1119598 Posted March 5, 2012 at 06:52 PM Author Posted March 5, 2012 at 06:52 PM Well I guess because of the large size of the Edmonton FIR, we are stuck with the issue. Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Saw Posted March 6, 2012 at 08:10 AM Posted March 6, 2012 at 08:10 AM When you log in with Facility set to Centre, the range at which pilots can "see" your frequency in there clients is hardcoded to 400NM from each of your visibility points. This is independent of what visibility range you have set within your client. Your Visibility range affects only who you can see. If the airspace can not be covered by 4x400NM circles you will always have this problem. The workaround is to get permission from VATSIM to use a FSS position, which has a hardcoded radio range of 1500NM. Jake Developer - vatSys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 6, 2012 at 02:28 PM Posted March 6, 2012 at 02:28 PM When you log in with Facility set to Centre, the range at which pilots can "see" your frequency in there clients is hardcoded to 400NM from each of your visibility points. This is true, but only half the equation. The other half is the pilot's radio range, which varies with altitude. The two ranges must overlap in order to make radio contact. So a pilot can see you in his list much further out than 400 NM if that pilot is at altitude. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Saw Posted March 7, 2012 at 07:32 AM Posted March 7, 2012 at 07:32 AM This is true, but only half the equation. The other half is the pilot's radio range, which varies with altitude. The two ranges must overlap in order to make radio contact. So a pilot can see you in his list much further out than 400 NM if that pilot is at altitude. Interesting.. How far out does altitude add to the range? Back when VATPAC implemented UIR sectors was when I first learnt of the range limitations. If I recall correctly we could cover the airspace using 600NM circles (just) but after some experimenting we found that aircraft weren't able to see the positions because of this limitation. We ended up getting permission for FSS positions. Jake Developer - vatSys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted March 7, 2012 at 04:33 PM Posted March 7, 2012 at 04:33 PM Interesting.. How far out does altitude add to the range? The formula for determining the pilot's radio range is: 10 + (1.414 * sqrt(altitude)) So on the ground at sea level, the range is 10 NM. At 5000 feet, the range is about 110 NM. At FL350 it's about 275 NM. Looking at the server code again just now, I think I was mistaken about the ranges overlapping. I believe it takes the larger of the two ranges. So in your example of CTR, the pilot would have to be within 600 NM of your vis center. In other words, a pilot at FL350 (with a 275 NM range) would not result in a combined range of 875 NM. It would still be 600. That's if I'm reading this code right, and [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming VATSIM hasn't changed the logic since I last worked on the server a few years back. Put another way, the pilot's altitude would only extend the range if the ATC range was less than the pilot's range, as would be the case with approach (which has 100 NM range) tower (30) ground/delivery (5). Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Smith 1119598 Posted March 8, 2012 at 12:20 AM Author Posted March 8, 2012 at 12:20 AM When you log in with Facility set to Centre, the range at which pilots can "see" your frequency in there clients is hardcoded to 400NM from each of your visibility points. This is independent of what visibility range you have set within your client. Your Visibility range affects only who you can see. If the airspace can not be covered by 4x400NM circles you will always have this problem. The workaround is to get permission from VATSIM to use a FSS position, which has a hardcoded radio range of 1500NM. We do have a FSS in Edmonton, I'll have to have to look into using it, Thanks. Mark Smith 1119598 Vatsim Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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