Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted February 5, 2006 at 02:52 AM Posted February 5, 2006 at 02:52 AM Well, I just parked at DTW after a long flight from Boston! I must say, the DTW controllers were all AWESOME, and absolutely swamped with aircraft!! I got a good laugh after I landed and realized, the time it took to leave Boston (including time on the ground) and get to SPICA, was less then I spent in holds at SPICA and POLAR! The controllers were all really nice about it though...and I'm sure they were thrilled to have it gusty and snowy at DTW! Once again, awesome job ZOB - lots of fun! And hey, I only got knocked off the server three times for this event - thats a record! Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffery Williams 849847 Posted February 5, 2006 at 03:18 AM Posted February 5, 2006 at 03:18 AM (edited) I agree, they did well. I heard a couple of pilots getting frustrated, but having controlled earlier today I know that the servers have been splitting on and off. When the servers split half of the airplanes on the screen disappear and it makes things extremely difficult. Anyway, nice work guys. Jeffery Williams aka Gemini 2204 Edited February 5, 2006 at 03:40 AM by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted February 5, 2006 at 03:33 AM Author Posted February 5, 2006 at 03:33 AM I heard a couple of pilots getting frustrated, but having controlled earlier today I know that the servers have been splitting on and off. Ditto, I think the controllers were getting irritated as well with fourty pilots at once trying to transmit their name and social security numbers All handled professionally though, with the "...everyone will get a turn!" Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Carlson Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:51 AM Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:51 AM I flew in towards the end, though it was still busy (about 40 a/c in my mp session) and the ATC was great all the way in. There were a couple technical glitches, but no more than usual for this size event. Nice job, ZOB! Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Musselman Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:56 AM Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:56 AM I agree, they did well. I heard a couple of pilots getting frustrated, but having controlled earlier today I know that the servers have been splitting on and off. When the servers split half of the airplanes on the screen disappear and it makes things extremely difficult. Anyway, nice work guys. Jeffery Williams aka Gemini 2204 Who me... Frustrated? Yeah guys it was good. Darn servers sometimes arn't on our side. Go Steelers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Perry Posted February 5, 2006 at 05:57 AM Posted February 5, 2006 at 05:57 AM Welp.... here's my version of the day. 1700Z-2330Z my "comcastic" internet service was out. 2330Z-0530Z controlling, with one 5 minute break. First couple hours I spent needlessly [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning holds at SPICA FL240 and up because I needed the practice [and apaprently so did a few pilots! ]. Nah, the controller below me wasn't taking handoffs cause the controlelr below him wasn't taking handoffs because the controller below him wasn't taking handoffs , because the controller below him got booted off the server temporarily. There are some things we can't control. Holds are something we can, and at one point every altitude from 140 to FL280 was occupied! Yikes! After a quick shot at working a low sector at center, I moved to D21 final and you pilots kicked my butt! I don't think I gave a good vector the entire time I was on. Thanks to everyone who pulled 4Gs to intercept the localizer and slewed down 1000' because I screwed up the g/s intercept too. Add on to my exceptionally poor vectoring skills a disappearing 747 that reappeared .5 mile ahead of a JS32 on final, and a few aircraft doing mach1 because their pitots froze over and the autothrottle went berzerk, and there's a recipe for a fun time. I think I'll stick to working center exclusively from now on. But... Good news, I think the m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] confusion for the first two hours or so concerning the 18 different numbered center callsigns we were using might just have tipped the scales in favor of descriptive sector names at ZOB. We got a month before our $100 hamburger event, hopefully we'll have figured out amongst ourselves just which number corresponds to east by then. So I'm off to check myself into the crazy farm. Now I really can appreciate why controllers NEED to take so many breaks. I think we should get some FAA management on VATSIM to try it out... Steve Perry Steven Perry VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Sipples 932159 Posted February 5, 2006 at 03:56 PM Posted February 5, 2006 at 03:56 PM 244 operations. A big thanks to everyone who turned out. We were amazed at the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:13 PM Author Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:13 PM [and apaprently so did a few pilots! ] *Cough Cough* Me It was my first time in a hold with my trusty L1011, but Center was really helpful (I believe that was with you Steven, I was AMT6479). Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Williams Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:31 PM Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:31 PM Thanks to Cleveland for a great event and for putting up with the endless voice server and other issues that seemed to plague VATSIM yesterday afternoon and evening! It was fun! Thank you, Lance W. Hundreds of Real-World Airlines and Routes for you to fly at www.ndbair.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Ortega 931674 Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:35 PM Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:35 PM Well, this was my first major flyin, but aside from the technical glitches, which seemed worse at the airport, it was GREAT flying with so many other aircraft and controllers and weather conditions that would slow real world flight to a halt. A little overwhelming at times as you rush to take handoffs from one controller to another. This is not the usual flying where you have few handoffs with plenty of time to make the switch as a pilot. I think this probably gives us all a glimpse of what it could be like flying into a busy airport in real life. Again, great job to all the controllers and apologies to any that I may have frustrated. Go Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Thomas Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:53 PM Posted February 5, 2006 at 04:53 PM m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] confusion for the first two hours or so concerning the 18 different numbered center callsigns I really didn't even notice you guys had callsigns....Cleveland Center, Metro Approach, and Tower were all I cared about.... Now, you did have a lot of freqs and controllers, which is right on target for real world as far as I know. If pilots weren't paying attention to the freqs, then that is entirely their fault, not yours. Sometimes I think SB causes more trouble than its worth by letting the pilots see the "controller" list and call signs. In the real world you wouldn't. Also, a tip for big events to pilots would be to pay attention to the handoffs coming, and set your radios up for the transition before you get to the hand off point. Fast transitions are important in a busy airspace like that. I thought you guys did a marvelous job considering. I just wish I had a computer that didn't get all wigged out with so many a/c in the MP session IMHO, Jeff Jeff Thomas VP-IT https://joinava.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Perry Posted February 5, 2006 at 05:38 PM Posted February 5, 2006 at 05:38 PM I really didn't even notice you guys had callsigns....Cleveland Center, Metro Approach, and Tower were all I cared about.... Now, you did have a lot of freqs and controllers, which is right on target for real world as far as I know. If pilots weren't paying attention to the freqs, then that is entirely their fault, not yours. You got it right! Unfortunately not all of us controllers were on the same page, within our own facility or with neighboring facilities. We learned the lesson and we're fixing it already! Now as for virtual pilots... you do need that controller list for the 99% of the time you're flying and need to make initial contact with someone. It'd be unreasonable to expect a pilot to start with, for instance, JFK_DEL's freq, then try each of the JFK_GND freqs, then each of the JFK_TWR freqs, then the bagillion N90 frequencies, and then the 40 NY CTR frequencies before finally reaching NY_KND_CTR and asking for clearance. In fact I'd say "forget it! I'm flying offline!" if I were expected to do that as a pilot. But once you do find a frequency and you're flying along within continuous ATC coverage, you can and should absolutely forget about the controller list [except in some rare cases]. Listen to who the controller is telling you to contact! If he gives you the wrong frequency, go to that frequency, try to call, and when the controller says "I suggest your last [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned ATC frequency" go back to the last guy and let him know his mistake "Uhhh, center, there was no one home on 123.45" or "Uhh, center, 123.45 didn't want to talk to me, can I get a new frequency?". That's how it happens real world, and pilots can be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned wrong frequencies mistakenly, and pilots do miss frequencies too. I used to fly a route that took me between PIT and CKB approaches and use to be [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned frequencies 121.25 and 121.00 depending on if I was in PIT or CKB airspace. Almost half the time I ended up calling the wrong facility. I swear the controller messed up 1/4 of the time though. A tip for determining who you might want to contact, listen for aircraft that are getting the same treatment as you. If you hear "AAL123, cross CIVET at FL190... contact SOCAL on 123.45" and you are ALSO on the CIVET arrival, you can probably set your standby frequency to 123.45! SP Steven Perry VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ogrodowski 876322 Posted February 6, 2006 at 02:07 AM Posted February 6, 2006 at 02:07 AM Sometimes I think SB causes more trouble than its worth by letting the pilots see the "controller" list and call signs. In the real world you wouldn't. True, although like Steve said, that really couldn't be done away with completely. What MIGHT be a good idea though, would be to have it call back the Radioname of the controller, and allow you to check the Controller Info for sector details. You could see ten Cleveland Centers and eight Detroit Approaches, but perhaps this would make it more realistic so that the pilots couldn't get confused by the callsigns. I do understand that would still leave it ambiguous if you don't check the Controller Info (like a good pilot would), but couldn't that be a fair compromise? Steve Ogrodowski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zameda 810257 Posted February 6, 2006 at 07:18 AM Posted February 6, 2006 at 07:18 AM To pilots who fly on the network, especially during major events. During your three phases of flight, the departure and arrival phases require the utmost concentration from all involved - ATC and pilots. ATC must ensure separation and spacing requirements are met, but PILOTS MUST be vigilant on the frequency and LISTEN up. Listen to what the controller says to other pilots - you can tell when it is busy. If you listen in, you'll also get an idea of what's going on, half the time you can figure out if you're on the wrong frequency. For example, at ZAU if you are supposed to land ORD and coming from the Southwest, but the CTR controller keeps clearing aircraft to fixes not on your arrival (i.e. STORY or NEWRK), you're probably on the wrong frequency. Save the old frequency you were on, go back (it's usually not as busy) and ask to verify that frequency one more time. When you do switch to a frequency, wait a second or two. See if it's busy. If the sector is "up for grabs," meaning the controller is SO busy that he or she doesn't have time to wait for a readback, then just wait and monitor until the frequency clears up some. Don't try to step on the controller or pilots making their readbacks. First of all it's in bad taste and bad ettiquette. Second, you can create an unsafe (okay, virtually unsafe) situation by making people repeat themselves. The controller will call you when they need to if they are really busy, just be patient. If the controller gets snobby with you when he asks if you are here, just tell him kindly you saw he was busy and wanted to wait to get a word in (believe me, this happens in real life ALL THE TIME). The next major problem I see with frequency congestion is the readbacks. If you are on a busy frequency, LISTEN UP. LISTEN. CAN YOU HEAR ME? Then read back the clearance QUICKLY. With the majority of people on voice, a quick readback is not too much to ask. Many controllers (like myself) do not consider a clearance to be 100% valid unless we hear the pilot read us back the clearance 100%. That is why, during a busy period, you need to listen to what is going on, and make sure you are ready at the drop of a hat if the controller calls your callsign. Chances are when he or she does so, they need to move on to the next situation quickly. Help em out. Frequencies will always be congested during a rush or event situation, but if you stay patient with your check-on, you can help. Cheers. Mark Zameda VATUSA6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Beach 915973 Posted February 8, 2006 at 11:37 PM Posted February 8, 2006 at 11:37 PM I'll admit it... I am a chicken. From 00:00Z to 02:00Z, I was DTW_E_GND, and it started out boring. But, over time, it got hectic. After the 2 hours the event was planned for, of course, I logged off and missed out of all the fun! Brian Beach VatsimPHP Developer: http://www.bbflights.com/VatsimPHP/ AFA Detroit Hub Director: http://www.flyafa.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Smith Posted February 9, 2006 at 08:39 PM Posted February 9, 2006 at 08:39 PM Mark, great points. When it gets that busy as a center controller, I'm well aware that certain planes are waiting to talk to me on frequency. The guy who is wheels up out of Vegas probably got a freq change to me but can't get a word in. I don't wait for him to call, I call him.... "AAL123, Los Angeles, I see you out there, rdr contact, c/m FL240, say altitude..." If pilots get the sense that the controller is on top of things and will call them when time allows, or priorities dictate, my HOPE is that they will be happier to sit back and let the controller do his job, rather than scrambling to report in with an urgent, "LAX CTR, AAL234, FL340, smooth," when they don't need to start descending for another 150 miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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