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Controlling at military airfields


Evan Mrozinski 1236460
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As a base, you need to have the rating for the positon. All ARTCCs in US also require you to either be a home controller or visiting controller with them. Based on the LOA, regular ARTCC controllers may or may not control the miltary fields. According to some of the LOAs, military fields are restricted to controllers in the military organization (vUSN, vUSAF, etc). This often depends on if the field is a joint civilian/military field (eg. Honolulu/Hickam) or military-only (eg. Oceana).

 

In all cases, you will need to check the local LOA in the ARTCC/FIR where you would be interested in controlling.

Tomas Hansson

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To put a point on it there is nothing special about a mil airport in VATSIM All airports within a facility's boundaries are owned by that facility regardless of mil or civil configuration. You must be a recognized and rated controller for that facility (perm or visitor) and have authorization from them to open an airport.

Kyle Ramsey

 

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should be able to, check any LOA's and policies they have. if its not listed, then yep it should be well within any rated controllers ability to control there. when in doubt, ask your ARTCC staff

 

No. Refer to Kyle Ramsey's comment.

 

To put a point on it there is nothing special about a mil airport in VATSIM All airports within a facility's boundaries are owned by that facility regardless of mil or civil configuration. You must be a recognized and rated controller for that facility (perm or visitor) and have authorization from them to open an airport.

 

To put it simply.. if you are an S2 and good to go for minor local control, you can control ANY non-major field in the ARTCC that has a tower on it. An LOA with vUSN/VUSAF, etc. cannot/should not restrict the ability for an S2 to open "Some Tower" regardless of civil or military affiliation in the real world. From my understanding of the GRP, you cannot restrict the opening of a legitimate tower by anyone properly rated unless it is a major field and they have yet to obtain the major endorsement.

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pretty much what i was saying lol didnt say it was restricted, IE check those LOA's & policies to see if they have any specific information on how the ARTCC treats them.

 

some places i remember used to do military endorsements, i think that was phased out for the most part years ago

 

I don't think you are understanding me, then. You cannot have restrictions unless it is a major. I know of zero military airports in the US that are cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ified as major. Your post makes it sound like a certified controller has to check if they are restricted but under the GRP they cannot be unless major. The military airports don't have traffic levels to warrant that. Therefore they are no different then that cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C or D minor next door.

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You cannot have restrictions unless it is a major.

For every rule, there is an exception.

 

For example, ZLA's R-2508 Complex LOA designates some facilities as "military-only" and that "ZLA controllers shall not be authorized to man 'military-only' facilities." Sure, one can argue that the GRP came after that agreement's time... but it's unlikely the reason behind its creation changed. For example, I, as a C1 controller fully trained for LAX_CTR (and all civilian facilities below it), would very likely be ill-equipped to provide a reasonable level of service vSOA pilots would likely expect - thus by controlling that facility I would be engaging in an "action or conduct which blocks, interferes with or otherwise prevents ... other ... individuals from ... enjoying the VATSIM.net network." Since doing otherwise would thus, IMHO, be a breach of CoR §6.03©, I gladly abide by that LOA with a "radar services terminated, change to tactical frequency approved; come up this frequency one minute prior to exit of the MOA" (or similar, depending upon the facility/airspace/etc.).

 

Pilots can't engage in military operations without membership from a recognized vSOA organization; why shouldn't there be a similar concept for controlling certain military facilities?

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You cannot have restrictions unless it is a major.

For every rule, there is an exception.

 

For example, ZLA's R-2508 Complex LOA designates some facilities as "military-only" and that "ZLA controllers shall not be authorized to man 'military-only' facilities." Sure, one can argue that the GRP came after that agreement's time... but it's unlikely the reason behind its creation changed. For example, I, as a C1 controller fully trained for LAX_CTR (and all civilian facilities below it), would very likely be ill-equipped to provide a reasonable level of service vSOA pilots would likely expect - thus by controlling that facility I would be engaging in an "action or conduct which blocks, interferes with or otherwise prevents ... other ... individuals from ... enjoying the VATSIM.net network." Since doing otherwise would thus, IMHO, be a breach of CoR §6.03©, I gladly abide by that LOA with a "radar services terminated, change to tactical frequency approved; come up this frequency one minute prior to exit of the MOA" (or similar, depending upon the facility/airspace/etc.).

 

Pilots can't engage in military operations without membership from a recognized vSOA organization; why shouldn't there be a similar concept for controlling certain military facilities?

 

Just because ZLA has that policy on its books doesn't make it correct or a valid exemption. While one can argue it "interferes" with the enjoyment of the network, that's not really a valid excuse. The actions at a military only tower versus a civilian tower do not differ that greatly.

 

If the exception were to be desirable, a suggestion can be submitted to the EC to be included in the GRP. But technically ZLA cannot stop someone from working a military airport as long as they hold the GRP required ratings. ZLA has listed an unenforceable rule.

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Pilots can't engage in military operations without membership from a recognized vSOA organization; why shouldn't there be a similar concept for controlling certain military facilities?

 

 

Ok well then by that logic, I am not only a member of the ZLC ARTCC but I am also a member of the vUSAF which is a recognized vSOA organization. So does that make it acceptable for me to do so then?

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Pilots can't engage in military operations without membership from a recognized vSOA organization; why shouldn't there be a similar concept for controlling certain military facilities?

 

 

Ok well then by that logic, I am not only a member of the ZLC ARTCC but I am also a member of the vUSAF which is a recognized vSOA organization. So does that make it acceptable for me to do so then?

 

That is flawed logic. Being a member of a vSOA, but not operating within a signed and approved LOA with the local facility, means being a member of a vSOA gives you no additional privileges at all for that facility. There is no vSOA equal in the controlling side at all but there is a similar concept for controlling certain facilities, its called the GRP and VCP.

 

It is acceptable if you are a rated controller on the roster for that facility and that airport is not otherwise restricted (a major). Period.

Kyle Ramsey

 

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It is acceptable if you are a rated controller on the roster for that facility and that airport is not otherwise restricted (a major). Period.

 

This is what I'm trying to say

Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager

VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC 

Cross the Pond Planning Team

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  • 1 year later...

I am a VATPAC member looking to do some Military Airfield controlling in the CONUS.

 

I am C1/O rated, and at this stage do not wish to relinquish my home region, so looking for as much exposure to Military Airfields as possible as a visiting controller. I have had over 3000hrs of flight with VSOAs (MIL).

 

1. Do any ARTCCs have joint rosters with neighbouring ARTCCs? Given the CONUS ARTCCs appear quite small it would be good to extend out.

 

2. If there is no way of providing service in multiple ARTCCs, which ARTCC has the most active/most facilities for Military?

 

In short I'd like to offer my hours of ATC to support military traffic at facilities.

Sean

C1/O P3

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1) Not to my knowledge. You'd have to visit mulitple places. There are some LOAs that may let you control in multiple areas if you are part of a certain military organization.

 

2) Not really. Not many ARTCCs have anyone that actively controls military fields. Usually the only time you would get military service is if someone's working top down.

 

Good luck!

Josh Glottmann
Deputy Air Traffic Manager
Oakland ARTCC
[email protected]

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ZDC have advised that I need to talk to vUSN to control at KNTU NAS Oceana.....

 

I don't understand that.

 

We have an LOA with them for them to control that field.

Ryan Geckler - GK | Former VATUSA3 - Division Training Manager

VATSIM Minneapolis ARTCC | FAA Miami ARTCC 

Cross the Pond Planning Team

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