Thimo Koolen Posted March 27, 2016 at 08:33 PM Posted March 27, 2016 at 08:33 PM (edited) Hello all, It happened two times already that I was flying into Gatwick and London Control [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igns me a TIMBA3E arrival. Only... That STAR does not exist. It doesn't show in my CDU, nor does it show on the nats-uk site, which I believe should be quite correct... What's it with controllers [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning that arrival when it doesn't exist? It happened this evening too. Edited March 28, 2016 at 09:23 AM by Guest ACCNL4 (Training Director) - Dutch VACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran Hardern Posted March 27, 2016 at 08:50 PM Posted March 27, 2016 at 08:50 PM Probably just a habit. People keep filing old routes that correspond to the 3E so controllers 'on autopilot' saying 4E without thinking. Best way to avoid it happening is file a route that goes to one of the new STARs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thimo Koolen Posted March 27, 2016 at 09:05 PM Author Posted March 27, 2016 at 09:05 PM (edited) In Europe, we don't file SIDs and STARs. One time, a London Controller was so convinced of the existence of TIMBA3E, that it took me several minutes to get an other STAR (over private message though) which did exist. Edited March 28, 2016 at 09:23 AM by Guest ACCNL4 (Training Director) - Dutch VACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieran Hardern Posted March 27, 2016 at 09:13 PM Posted March 27, 2016 at 09:13 PM In Europe, we don't file SIDs and STARs. What I said was "file a route that goes to one of the new STARs", not file the STAR. The TIMBA1J/1K start at different points (ERING/TEBRA) to the old TIMBA3E (KOPUL). The controller's much less likely to make the mistake if they end at the correct points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted March 27, 2016 at 10:24 PM Posted March 27, 2016 at 10:24 PM In Europe, we don't file SIDs and STARs.In Germany you are supposed to file SIDs/STARs. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thimo Koolen Posted March 28, 2016 at 09:24 AM Author Posted March 28, 2016 at 09:24 AM Oh I did not know that. Poor German controllers. Anyway, I meant the TIMBA3E arrival, instead of 4E. Sorry about that, but that doesn't exist anyway. It would be great if a London Controller (for example Lewis) would answer this. ACCNL4 (Training Director) - Dutch VACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Speer Posted March 28, 2016 at 09:43 AM Posted March 28, 2016 at 09:43 AM Hi Thimo, Kieran is a London Controller. There was a major airspace change in the London Area in February 2016 (1602 AIRAC) and amongst many changes the STARs into Gatwick were altered. The old STAR TIMBA3E which starts at KOPUL removed and new STARs TIMBA1J and TIMBA1K which start at ERING and TEBRA repectively. We try and accomodate all pilots including those who haven't updated their navdata (it isn't a requirement to fly with updated navdata) and as controllers we have no idea what navdata you are currently using. If a flightplan is filed using the outdated KOPUL then the presumption is that you are using navdata prior to February 2016 and as sucj will offer the TIMBA3E STAR if traffic allows or vector along the new STAR. Flightplans should now end at ERING or TEBRA and then controllers will know that you are using updated navdata and then issue the new STARs. Phillip VATSIM UK Divisional Instructor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thimo Koolen Posted March 28, 2016 at 10:18 AM Author Posted March 28, 2016 at 10:18 AM Hello Philip, I didn't know that. Sorry. Anyway, somehow I did file KOPUL instead of ERING, which Vatroute suggests. I don't know why, but it happened. Glad that's sorted out. ACCNL4 (Training Director) - Dutch VACC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted March 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Posted March 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM Oh I did not know that. Poor German controllers. Why "poor controllers"? Either pilots file a SID/STAR or they don't. If they don't we amend the flightplan anyways, we are pretty relaxed Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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