Question about altitude changes and flight following

[Aaron Fang Shenhao 1279224]

Hi,

I currently have a few questions about VFR in Vatsim:

 

1) Do I need to notify ATC of any altitude changes I make when under flight following?

2) If I suddenly decide to change altitude or course in Bravo airspace under VFR, would I have to notify the controller?

3) What do I have to do when nearing the destination airport during flight following? Will the controller contact me or would I have to cancel flight following before landing?

 

Thanks for the help,

Aaron.

[Don Desfosse]

Aaron,

 

You didn't mention which country you're asking about. My answers will only apply to flight in the USA. VATSIM is a global organization, and it's likely that the answers would be different for other countries across the globe. That said, in the US:

 

1. No, unless you are in controlled airspace (i.e. Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B) or otherwise instructed by ATC (e,g, "Advise prior to any altitude change"). (and, technically, even in the "Advise prior...." case, all you're required to do to comply is advise, the altitude change, if not in controlled airspace (e.g. Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B) is still up to you, although aviation is a team sport, so I'd wait to hear something that sounds happy from the controller before I changed altitude, e.g. "Roger, thanks", and not something like "Ohmygodthere'strafficallaroundyouandifyouchangealtitudeyou'regoingtodie!!!!!" )

 

2. You may not suddenly act on your sudden decision on your own, without a clearance, unless your sudden decision was due to an emergency, in which case you may invoke the rights of pilot in command exercising your authority to deal with an emergency, but must also notify ATC in a timely manner that you are doing so. In the other 99.9% of the cases, you need a clearance to change altitude in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B airspace that would be contrary to your existing clearance. For example, if you are cleared into Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B and told to maintain an altitude (e.g., "Cleared into Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo, maintain 3,500"), you must maintain that altitude unless you negotiate a different clearance. However, if you are given a clearance like "Cleared into Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Bravo, maintain at or below 3,500" and you're at 3,500 wanting to descend, you may.

 

3. It's always helpful if you have the airport in sight to notify ATC that you have the airport in sight. In most cases, you'll get something like, "Roger, radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved." However, I have on occasion gotten, "Why don't you stay with me for a bit, there's traffic between you and the airport." Boy, do I like those calls, because I'm very happy to get the extra service and traffic situational awareness. That said, you are certainly within your rights to answer, "I'd like to cancel advisory service at this time" in which case you'll likely get the cancellation terminology I described above. Your other option is to simply cancel advisory service (as in the immediately-preceding example); I have always taught my students, however, to report the airport in sight, as it accomplishes the same thing (let's the controller know you're all set) but gives the controller the ability to offer additional traffic services if he can see it's prudent. Finally, if you haven't called/canceled, and the controller believes you should see the airport by now (or he's getting too busy to provide service), he's likely to call the field for you to help prompt the cancellation sequence (e.g. "Skyhawk 123AB, the airport is at your 12 o'clock and six miles, report it in sight." Once you wake up, er, I mean locate it and report it in sight , the controller will then terminate your service as explained in the first example in this paragraph.

 

Sorry for being so long-winded; the flight instructor is coming out in me!

[Joel Richters]

Don is correct that every country is different. In Australia the short answers would be:

 

1. Yes. Air Services Australia say that Altitude, Track and Frequency changes must be notified to ATC while under flight following. http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/flight_following_fact_sheet.pdf

 

2. Australia doesn't have Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B, however yes as per above.

 

3. Yes. You would advise of your altitude change. They would likely respond (if they haven't already done it) NO REPORTED IFR TRAFFIC QNH XXXX. Once they have advised this, then it is [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umed flight following is cancelled.

[Aaron Fang Shenhao 1279224]

Thank you for your help Don and Joel!

 

I am asking this for mainly USA and Australia (I live in Australia but also fly in USA for Vatsim). I have some follow up questions for clarification.

 

1) So now I know that it is required to advice Australian ATC of any alt/track changes and it is recommended to advice USA ATC of any changes too. In Australia, would you just need to advise the controller of a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C airspace of an altitude change or would you actually have to get a clearance to do it? And how about Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D? According to Airservices Australia, VFR flights are required to communicate with ATC in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C and clearance is needed in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D.

 

2) When flight following, if the airport you're landing at has a tower, you will automatically be handed off, right? Secondly, I am not quite sure what to do when nearing the destination airport (uncontrolled) in Australia. Would I just advise that I am descending and then when cleared it is [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umed FF is cancelled? Or would it be like USA, where you say you have the field in sight then FF is cancelled by ATC?

 

3) This is an additional question, but do VFR flights need a start up clerance (both USA and Australia). I think a VATPAC docomeent read that even IFR flights do not need a startup clearance in Australia, could someone clarify? And in USA, do you start up whenever you if under VFR (or would it be different depending on cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] of airport)?

 

Also, how would you typically transition through an airspace in Australia? I have seen a couple of videos in real life and it seems different from USA.

 

Thanks again for the help,

Aaron.

[Don Desfosse]

For 2, in the US, normally yes, though that is workload permitting. Every once in a great while, your service will be terminated and you'll need to call the tower on your own (just as if you didn't have flight following).

 

For 3, do you mean engine start?

[Aaron Fang Shenhao 1279224]

Thanks again Don for your help.

 

Yes for number 3, I am referring to VFR engine start. I am sort of confused about this. Also, for IFR (in USA), some guides say that you ask startup clearance from Clearance Delivery then Ground for pushback. Another guide says that you contact ground for pushback then you ask them again for pushback. Can someone please clarify this?

 

Thanks,

Aaron.

[Bradley Grafelman]

For #2, it's also possible that the controller is busy handling IFR traffic and you accidentally go unnoticed for a bit. If you know you're approaching your destination, you'd want to solicit a frequency change before entering the tower's airspace.

 

For #3, the ramp/parking area is typically in a non-movement area that is outside ATC control. So, no, I wouldn't normally request permission to start up or pushback (or maneuver) in the non-movement area from any ATC throughout VATUSA. (I say "normally" since I understand that some events can get quite busy and it's possible that an ARTCC decides to emulate a "ramp tower" whose staff handles traffic in the non-movement areas.)

[David Zhong]

1) So now I know that it is required to advice Australian ATC of any alt/track changes and it is recommended to advice USA ATC of any changes too. In Australia, would you just need to advise the controller of a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C airspace of an altitude change or would you actually have to get a clearance to do it? And how about Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D? According to Airservices Australia, VFR flights are required to communicate with ATC in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C and clearance is needed in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D.

 

In Australia, you must obtain an airways clearance to enter controlled airspace. Once inside controlled airspace, you must comply with your clearance until a new one is issued.

 

The only exception is if you are flying through a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D control zone, in which case there are some special rules. If you declare your intentions ("inbound", "ready for crosswind departure", etc.), and ATC do not instruct you to "remain outside Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] Delta airspace", then you are deemed to have received an abbreviated clearance, the terms of which match your declared intentions. If you have declared that you are "inbound", then you may descend as required. If you have reported "ready" (approaching the runway from a taxiway), then you may climb as required (provided that you don't enter another form of controlled airspace). If ATC issue any regular control instructions (e.g. "maintain 1500") then you must comply with those.

 

2) When flight following, if the airport you're landing at has a tower, you will automatically be handed off, right? Secondly, I am not quite sure what to do when nearing the destination airport (uncontrolled) in Australia. Would I just advise that I am descending and then when cleared it is [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umed FF is cancelled? Or would it be like USA, where you say you have the field in sight then FF is cancelled by ATC?

 

Flight following (a.k.a. "surveillance information service") is only available in Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E airspace. In Australia, there are no airports within Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E airspace and therefore you will never have a situation where you would be transferred directly to a "tower" service from flight following.

 

The only time something like this would occur is when you enter the airspace of a procedural tower. Procedural towers are combined tower/approach units - but they perform the approach service using non-radar procedures. Prior to entering their airspace (which will typically be Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] C or D), you will be issued with an airways clearance. If you are under flight following, you will automatically be issued with a clearance (as ATC know that you need it) whereas without flight following, you would need to contact the procedural tower for clearance on your own initiative.

 

The exception to the previous paragraph is that there are two procedural towers (at Karratha and Broome) where the procedural tower airspace is Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E. As these are non-radar environments, flight following is not applicable anyway.

 

It's important to realise that flight following is only available within radar or ADS-B coverage. Much of Australia does not have low altitude radar or ADS-B coverage and even along the east coast, you will not enjoy continuous coverage below 10000FT.

 

3) This is an additional question, but do VFR flights need a start up clerance (both USA and Australia). I think a VATPAC docomeent read that even IFR flights do not need a startup clearance in Australia, could someone clarify? And in USA, do you start up whenever you if under VFR (or would it be different depending on cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] of airport)?

 

Engine start clearance is generally not required in Australia. If engine start clearance is required, it will be noted in either ERSA (the airport directory), NOTAM or ATIS. The capital city GA airports (e.g. Bankstown, Moorabbin, etc.) all require engine start clearance as per their ERSA entries.

 

Also, how would you typically transition through an airspace in Australia? I have seen a couple of videos in real life and it seems different from USA.

 

Not quite sure what you mean by "transition"? If you are referring to simply crossing controlled airspace during your flight, it is quite simple. As you approach controlled airspace, you must request an airways clearance detailing your proposed route (including where you intend to exit controlled airspace) and altitude. Once you are issued with an airways clearance, you simply fly the clearance until you leave controlled airspace again.

[Don Desfosse]

In the US, the only time a start clearance is required is when it's required by facility, NOTAM or on the ATIS. That means it's not required 99+% of the time. For larger aircraft that would get pushed (by a tug) onto a movement area, clearance to push (and start) is required (e.g. you are an airliner at a gate for which insufficient space exists to push you in nonmovement area, and so you must push onto a taxiway). And as Brad mentioned, some extremely large events make ramp management a challenge, instituting a temporary push/start requirement (e.g. Cross the Pond). In cases like this, however, the requirement is published (e.g. facility briefing to event participants) and is announced on the ATIS. But if you're interested in VFR flight following in a GA aircraft, unless published, there is no start restriction (I would say there is no start restriction 99.9+% of the time).

[Matthew Cetrangelo]

@David Zhong i know this is an old post, but i really appreciate your insight into the answers here. If you don't mind, i had another question in furtherance to the original post- 

In Australia, i don't often hear 'Squawk VFR' when flight following is cancelled. If changing to CTAF for landing at an uncontrolled airport, do i keep my transponder code, or change it to 1200 once FF is cancelled?

Thanks!