Closed airport operations

[Ignacio Tapia 1029833]

Hello fellow pilots,

 

Along with saying hi, this is my first time at the forums, although I've been a member of VATSIM for some years now.. Yet I have a question regarding closed airports; See I've put a lot of work in reviving a closed airport from my country in Chile, as some of you will remember the original Los Cerrillos (SCTI) airport that closed in 2006; What happens is that I haven't found any information or rule in VATSIM that shows what to do when there is a controller available and you are headed to the closed airport. Is this allowed?

 

Also, if there is any old schooler around that might still have the approach chart procedures for SCTI; I only managed to find 2 departures from FScharts, and one VOR-DME approach but only from the south of the runway.

 

Thanks for the help, and see you in the virtual skies!

 

Regards,

 

Ignacio Tapia Vila.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

is no rule for or against it. people still fly to many closed airports online including the popular Kai Tek airport. the controllers will simply treat them as uncontrolled. they arent allowed to deny you from going into or out of those fields, but they dont have to provide service to them, theyll cancel services at some point and youll do the rest, the same as any other uncontrolled field

[Andreas Fuchs]

It's "Kai Tak"

 

The same goes for Berlin-Tempelhof in Germany, its ICAO code is EDDI. And don't forget Chicago Meigs, KCGX, where quite a few of us have made their first steps in FS.

[Deon Mathews]

Keep in mind that current AIRAC's include no procedures for decommissioned airports and will limit your options for departures and arrivals...

 

Happy landings!!

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Keep in mind that current AIRAC's include no procedures for decommissioned airports and will limit your options for departures and arrivals...

 

Yes it will limit your options, couldn't agree more, but at the same time I know of no add-on aircraft, be they payware or free, that cannot be hand flown without even using the FMC for guidance. The only real limit is in the pilot's abilities, which can be controlled, and the weather, which cannot (unless you choose CAVOK in the sim options). Once I find the New Hong Kong Airport I can then find Kai Tak easily and fly the famous "checkerboard" by hand, or...

 

If the airport is still "commissioned" in whatever flight sim platform you use it is possible to create your own "procedures" within the navdata files so your options expand.

 

I've done that for Kai Tak, Berlin Tegel, and a couple others. I keep the text file safely tucked away in a docomeent folder and then re-add the necessary entries to the new NavData after installing the latest Navigraph update. Writing the text data the first time is the hardest part. Re-adding it takes only seconds after an update.

 

Some airlines also use "company" procedures that aren't a part of the typical NavData cycles. I've been lucky enough to see some of these company charts and written my own "company" procedures for the NavData cycle.

 

Randy

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi Randy,

Once I find the New Hong Kong Airport I can then find Kai Tak easily and fly the famous "checkerboard" by hand, or...

there is actually some scenery available for Kai Tak with the IGS and all the bells and whistles. I regularly fly it in FS2004 (yes...) and even in P3D.

 

Berlin Tegel

Tempelhof Tegel is still open and the new Berlin Airport, well let's not talk about that one!

[Randy Tyndall 1087023]

Andreas,

 

Good thing this is a written form of communication. Too hard to talk with my foot in my mouth... I meant Tempelhof. Don't know why I wrote Tegel.

 

As for Kai Tak, I have the 9 Dragons scenery for FS2004 and the FlyTampa scenery for FSX. I was trying to point out that as far as decommissioned airports go, flying to the "new" one will often get you close enough to manually find the "old" one in both FS2004 and FSX and hand fly the approach without the need for automation or navdata. Kai Tak is a "hand fly" must for me...it's awesome...so I used that for an example.

 

Randy

[Kirk Christie]

There are regular events at Kai Tak where ATC provide a full service still.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Andreas,

 

Good thing this is a written form of communication. Too hard to talk with my foot in my mouth... I meant Tempelhof. Don't know why I wrote Tegel.

 

As for Kai Tak, I have the 9 Dragons scenery for FS2004 and the FlyTampa scenery for FSX. I was trying to point out that as far as decommissioned airports go, flying to the "new" one will often get you close enough to manually find the "old" one in both FS2004 and FSX and hand fly the approach without the need for automation or navdata. Kai Tak is a "hand fly" must for me...it's awesome...so I used that for an example.

hehe, I suspected that it was just a typing error, you meant the correct one.

 

Regarding Kai Tak I understood that there is no IGS available anymore so one has to find it visually. All clear now. There are even charts available on the internet, I usually follow the procedures there. And with customers on the A320-SIM that I freelance on we usually takeoff from VHHH's runway 07R, climb 3000ft and then intercept the IGS with a slight right turn. Easy!

[Kirk Christie]

Andreas,

 

Good thing this is a written form of communication. Too hard to talk with my foot in my mouth... I meant Tempelhof. Don't know why I wrote Tegel.

 

As for Kai Tak, I have the 9 Dragons scenery for FS2004 and the FlyTampa scenery for FSX. I was trying to point out that as far as decommissioned airports go, flying to the "new" one will often get you close enough to manually find the "old" one in both FS2004 and FSX and hand fly the approach without the need for automation or navdata. Kai Tak is a "hand fly" must for me...it's awesome...so I used that for an example.

hehe, I suspected that it was just a typing error, you meant the correct one.

 

Regarding Kai Tak I understood that there is no IGS available anymore so one has to find it visually. All clear now. There are even charts available on the internet, I usually follow the procedures there. And with customers on the A320-SIM that I freelance on we usually takeoff from VHHH's runway 07R, climb 3000ft and then intercept the IGS with a slight right turn. Easy!

 

If you have scenery the IGS is available, as ILS's VOR's ect are apart of the AFCAD, its very much there in the scenery.

 

What I do for the customers in the 777 sim I work at, is Depart runway 13 head for CH cross at 8000 ft, then start descent to 6000ft on heading 270, at 7 DME right turn heading 020 down to 4500 intercept the IGS https://unforbiddingcity.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/kaitak_chart.jpg?w=500&h=343

 

I can generally get 2 circuits done in 30 mins

 

What you wont have is the DAP's in your sim, unless you edit your navdata.

 

Just tune the IGS 111.90 on the radio.

[Ignacio Tapia 1029833]

Thank you all for the reply,

 

Now with that out of the way, I just need to find the old procedures. Unfortunately, my airport was not as popular as the famous Kai Tak, where you can find those docomeents pretty much everywhere. I was able to find a few procedures, however not enough as they are used on the least common runway. As for the modern procedures, so far shouldn't be a problem as I've been flying propliners with VOR-DME and ILS equipment. Paper will do for this one!

 

Airport reconstruction has been a fairly simple with X-plane overlay editor and WED. I had to edit a lot the actual position of the runway, and so far I haven't been able to place the ILS system correctly. the VOR works!

[Dace Nicmane]

so far I haven't been able to place the ILS system correctly

Are you trying to relocate an existing ILS or create a new one?

Did you follow this manual?

[Ignacio Tapia 1029833]

Are you trying to relocate an existing ILS or create a new one?

Did you follow this manual?

 

I'm no expert, but it's supposed to be an existing ILS system. I can see it on the apt.dat listed, but I when I go into the map in X-plane, the ILS system is not there. I would have to keep reading further into the developer's manual.

[Dace Nicmane]

The file that lists all the navaids is earth_nav.dat. If you've never modified your navaids before (like aligning ILSs), look for it in X-plane\Resources\default data. You can edit it manually and add rows: one for the localizer, one for the glideslope and one for the DME (if there's one). It's described in the docomeent I linked to. But the easiest way is to add it in sim. Open Location>Local map, check 'edit' at the top, then click the 'add LOC' button on the left and enter the data it asks for. If you don't know the exact coordinates, just place it (by changing the coordinate values) on the extended centerline at the far end of the runway (e.g. for runway 27 the loc will be at the Western end of the runway). Adjust the heading so that the loc cone covers the runway and aligns with the centerline. Then click on 'add GLS' and place it left or right of the touchdown zone of the runway. It will look like a little box with 'GS' in it. Enter all the data and close the map. When you exit X-plane, it will ask if you want to save the changes and save them to X-plane\Custom Data\earth_nav.dat. It doesn't overwrite this file when updating to a new version, but you can back it up anyway.

How did you add the VOR?

[Ignacio Tapia 1029833]

Thanks a lot for taking the time on explaining. The VOR was properly installed with the airport. I remember I p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed a very old scenery from FS2002 with FS2Xplane tool, then to correct the apt.dat (since it was missing many things), I took the file from a user-made scenery version(available at X-plane's website) with regular default buildings.

I will try adding the ILS on the sim.

[Fred Michaels 1137645]

I know this is quite common for smaller airports. I know within ZMA, we keep one Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] E field near Miami loaded within the sector file simply because it is still requested once in a blue moon. I believe most ARTCCs recognize this occurs unless you are dealing with a situation where an old airport is sitting under a new one.