Ross Carlson Posted May 5, 2006 at 07:07 PM Posted May 5, 2006 at 07:07 PM I just think people get set off and/or put on guard by such accusations. Statements like that erode the person's credibility from the start, which makes any sort of reasonable discussion an uphill battle for the original poster. Communicating over a text-based medium is challenging enough as it is. Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Anopov 895164 Posted May 5, 2006 at 09:11 PM Author Posted May 5, 2006 at 09:11 PM Hey, i see you misunderstand me at all! Welcome to LAX, exit right on Yankee, Cross 25R, right on Charlie, Charlie 12 to the gate" is interpreted by some pilots as "Cross 25R and taxi to the gate". This is either because they don't understand, don't have charts, or don't care. Welcome to LAX, exit right on Yankee, Cross 25R, right on Charlie, Charlie 12 to the gate - well in EU you are likely to hear taxi instructions like that! Since our environment runs the full spectrum of realism (From person to person) you simply can not expect that everyone has taxi charts, parks at an actual gate, has collisions on, or even has multiplayer enabled. Sure Ian! why don't US controllers provide ramp control or taxi separation? It was for me "it goes with out saying", i was sure that US Atc provide full services on ground as well...that's why i didn't ask it Good question...I think not....but then his last thread where he called the Heathrow guys "Butchers" had a pretty good run also. Hello Richard Sorry, i didn't call our atc butchers, i mean something like "Butchers (name of the shop) in Heathrow" Justv Russian iddeomatic phrase, never mind I hope i didn't made any enemies by posting this topic! Sorry if someone was upset by phrase "irresponsible atc"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Nielson 839877 Posted May 5, 2006 at 09:28 PM Posted May 5, 2006 at 09:28 PM George, I highly suggest that you learn more about the FS multiplayer environment as well. it is highly probably that the aircraft pushing back behind you actually did not come into contact with you physically but due to the network update/refresh rate in combination with the 'bubble' around the other multiplayer aircraft was actually to blame here. I suspect this was also the case with your taxi way incursion also. The point being that even if a controller had positive control over all the aircraft in the immediate vicinity the crash would have still occured given the close proximity of the taxiways to begin with. This has been a well known issue of FS for quite sometime now and many articles have been written about it. have you noticed before how aircraft tend to jump forwards and backwards while online? So before we even get back into the issues and regulations concerning aircraft movement in the real world or the virtual world you need to understand the basics. It has ALWAYS been recommended to disable crash detection while flying online and even offline for most sceneries because alot of authors forget to properly design their objects. The fact that you haven't run into this problem at EU airports is probably sheer luck. If you don't want to do this then you're just going to be unhappy all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Littlejohn Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:18 PM Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:18 PM Welcome to LAX, exit right on Yankee, Cross 25R, right on Charlie, Charlie 12 to the gate - well in EU you are likely to hear taxi instructions like that! This, I agree with totally. Since our environment runs the full spectrum of realism (From person to person) you simply can not expect that everyone has taxi charts, parks at an actual gate, has collisions on, or even has multiplayer enabled. Sure Ian! why don't US controllers provide ramp control or taxi separation? It was for me "it goes with out saying", i was sure that US Atc provide full services on ground as well...that's why i didn't ask it Herein lies the confusion. ATC in the US does provide services on the ground, but you also need to see things from the broad perspective. A Center/FIR controller, say at the real world Salt Lake Center, will have no idea of the traffic movement on the ground at KBOI, which is a good 300nm away from the facility. Same would be said here, there's no way we here at LA Center, could know the traffic movements at KIGM or KGCN when we have a fair and steady number of planes to deal with in the air. A Tower controller, or ground controller, however will provide services on the ground. But the gate and Ramp areas are not controlled by the ground or tower controller. Hence, why ground will say 'advise ready for taxi' or clearance delivery will say 'readback correct, contact ground when ready for taxi'. Pilots in the US, unless explicitly stated to them, do not contact a ground or tower controller for pushback. As Richard stated, since we have no Ramp controller, that pushback will be at your risk. It won't be until you short of a taxiway that you will be contacting a controller. Even if it were an Approach or Center controller, for which providing tower services is not compulsory, you would still be told which runway to taxi to, followed by something like 'use caution for traffic taxiing around the terminal area'. I think what really has caused this, was just the differences between operations in the UK versus those same operations in the US. Either way, learning experience. No harm, no foul. BL. Brad Littlejohn ZLA Senior Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Anopov 895164 Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:23 PM Author Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:23 PM Jeff, thanx once again for explanation, i know before how it works, but the point why i was writing - i never used to have ground collisions for the last 2 years flying in Vatsim and the only collisions i had - all happened in Los Angles. Most probably it just happened randomly. Thanx everybody guys for long and detailed posts, hope someone will also get benefit out of this. Me personally, i have collisions switched off in fs, but Acars and Fsp[Mod - Happy Thoughts] uses their own build-in settings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry Morris 920567 Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:33 PM Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:33 PM I think it may just be the law of averages. LAX is one of the busiest airports we have in the US (or so it appears to me - no hard numbers to back it up). Therefore, you are much more likely to encounter a problem there related to other pilots than you would be at a much less busy airport. http://www.execjetva.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Klapper 884347 Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:54 PM Posted May 5, 2006 at 10:54 PM It also lies with simple ATC duty priority--I'm sure it's been mentioned already in the 4 pages. A controller is always responsible for aircraft which are airborn before providing services to aircraft on the ground... Ethan Klapper VATUSA13 VATUSA Deputy Events Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Nielson 839877 Posted May 6, 2006 at 08:49 AM Posted May 6, 2006 at 08:49 AM Here's a video we can all benefit from while we're still on this topic. This video clearly defines movement areas in US airports. http://www.faa.gov/runwaysafety/video/marks.zip It has Harrison Ford and the Kings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Klapper 884347 Posted May 6, 2006 at 07:26 PM Posted May 6, 2006 at 07:26 PM Here's a video we can all benefit from while we're still on this topic. This video clearly defines movement areas in US airports. http://www.faa.gov/runwaysafety/video/marks.zip It has Harrison Ford and the Kings. That's a really good video--i've seen it quite a few times! Recommended for ALL to watch! Ethan Klapper VATUSA13 VATUSA Deputy Events Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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