From 0 to 100 way too quick.

[Morten Fredriksen 1392044]

I have been playing FSX for a long while now using the in game ATC. That became boring after a while so I took up Vatsim. Terrified to speak at first I did some research on how to speak to ATC and which controller to talk to at a given time.

 

So I am at an Airport and there is a controller there, I put in my GPS coordinates in a plane that comes with the game.

 

So I muster my strenght and confidence and talk to ATC. He tells me to stand by and I reply to standing by.

 

Then all of a sudden it goes from 0 - 100 real real quick as this is COMPLETELY new to me and I have NO idea what he was talking about or what to do with this information.

 

"Can you accept IFR Route: GOSAM P600 FENIK L612 CROFT"

 

 

^^My Reaction^^

 

I tell him to stand by as I violently google it everywhere until I just get so freaked out I just closed the 'vPilot'.

 

What does this mean!? What do I do with this information? I found out it is a specific route but NO idea what to do with it since I don't think you can file that GPS route into a Learjet that came with the game.

 

Please help me.

[Sean Harrison]

Don't sweat, it is a reasonably complex venture. Real world pilots get heaps of training and experience, most of us try and pick it up as a hobby.

 

So if you have filed a IFR flight plan, and you request clearance, then the controller will 'authorise' you to fly along that route. Sometimes for various reasons the route you filed (requested) may not be available. Which sounds like this case of yours. He was suggesting a 'preferred' route to you. If you can't fly along that route he suggested you could simply say "unable due equipment" or whatever. It just lets the controller know that you can't do it.

 

If you want a bit more leeway in your flight plan, you could file VFR that way the controllers aren't as concerned with your separation from other traffic. (putting it simply).

 

What I did when I first started was sit at an airport with heaps of traffic and just listen in to gain some experience. I can seem like a different language, and can be overwhelming. But most of us started out the same, so don't give up.

[Daniel Murphy]

,

Edited July 24, 2020 at 12:10 PM by Daniel Murphy

[Morten Fredriksen 1392044]

Hello,

 

You may remember me, I was the controller at the time. The reason I gave you a route via text is that you filed a IFR flight plan, but had no route.

 

http://www.casey.tgis.co.uk/vatsim/howto/readroutesv2.pdf

 

The link above is a basic way to "decode" a route, I also gave you another link while you were online, which was the VATSIM Pilot Resource Centre. Take your time, read it carefully and remember, if you are unsure of anything , the controller will be happy to help.

 

In the Flight Planner there is no "Route" option. Just a basic "From here to here" configuration in vPilot.

 

It just tells me:

 

Departure

Destination

Alternate Airport

Departure Time

Time Enroute

Fuel Available

Cruise Speed

Cruise Altitude

 

It does not give me a "Route" option. I do see a Route text box but good god help me i don't know what to type in there.

[Bradley Grafelman]

I do see a Route text box but good god help me i don't know what to type in there.

One example of what to type in would be the one you referenced in your post above:

 

GOSAM P600 FENIK L612 CROFT

In other words, a route that begins at the GOSAM intersection. It then follows the P600 low-altitude airway to the FENIK waypoint. From there, it follows the L612 low-altitude airway to the CROFT intersection. You can see a depiction of this route on SkyVector here.

 

Planning a route, especially one flown under IFR, typically requires more thought than "I'll just hit the DCT button on my GPS once I get in the air and type in my destination airport." The challenge is part of the fun, IMHO.

[Morten Fredriksen 1392044]

I do see a Route text box but good god help me i don't know what to type in there.

One example of what to type in would be the one you referenced in your post above:

 

GOSAM P600 FENIK L612 CROFT

In other words, a route that begins at the GOSAM intersection. It then follows the P600 low-altitude airway to the FENIK waypoint. From there, it follows the L612 low-altitude airway to the CROFT intersection. You can see a depiction of this route on SkyVector here.

 

Planning a route, especially one flown under IFR, typically requires more thought than "I'll just hit the DCT button on my GPS once I get in the air and type in my destination airport." The challenge is part of the fun, IMHO.

 

But the Learjet 45 cannot follow such a route, it can only do A > B routing. If there is a way to put this into the Learjet 45 in it's GPS I would be happy to do so.

 

But even if I did do all of this correctly and even if I knew what route to take there is no way for the plane to follow the route.

[Bradley Grafelman]

Sure it can.

 

One option (probably the best one) would be to use use external websites/software (Simbrief, PFPX, Aivlasoft's EFB, FSCommander, etc.) to export a .pln file containing the route that can then be imported in FSX. It'll preload the individual waypoints into the built-in GPS.

 

Another option is to simply hand-fly each leg. Once you near a given waypoint, you'd use the D-> (direct-to) button on the GPS to proceed to the next waypoint.

[Morten Fredriksen 1392044]

Sure it can.

 

One option (probably the best one) would be to use use external websites/software (Simbrief, PFPX, Aivlasoft's EFB, FSCommander, etc.) to export a .pln file containing the route that can then be imported in FSX. It'll preload the individual waypoints into the built-in GPS.

 

Another option is to simply hand-fly each leg. Once you near a given waypoint, you'd use the D-> (direct-to) button on the GPS to proceed to the next waypoint.

 

This website is really good! (SimBrief.com)

 

Going to figure out how to get the plan into FSX.

[Morten Fredriksen 1392044]

Sure it can.

 

One option (probably the best one) would be to use use external websites/software (Simbrief, PFPX, Aivlasoft's EFB, FSCommander, etc.) to export a .pln file containing the route that can then be imported in FSX. It'll preload the individual waypoints into the built-in GPS.

 

Another option is to simply hand-fly each leg. Once you near a given waypoint, you'd use the D-> (direct-to) button on the GPS to proceed to the next waypoint.

 

So I tried something and was wondering if this is a correct thing to use? I am flying EGCC to EGLL.

 

EGCC HON COWLY WOD EGLL

 

Thanks.

[Morten Fredriksen 1392044]

Nevermind, they just told me it is invalid and asked me to use SANBA N859 HON.

 

I still don't get it...

[Lindsey Wiebe 1101951]

Hi Morten,

 

Welcome to the hobby! I think you are doing the preverbal 'jump into the deep end' and are sinking. Flying into EGLL is likely the MOST complex airport to fly into especially to a noob (no slagging here it's just a fact, in fact... put that in your flight plan under comments and ATC will give you much more leeway). The route you picked would work, however, as I said EGLL is extremely complex and have very strict arrival and departure routes so what they sent back to you was what you'd need to use to get into their airspace... under IFR. 99% of the controllers are very willing to help, as above your original controller sent you a link but you probably had logged off by then. I would strongly recommend reading through the material that vatsim provides and you will enjoy the hobby more instead of being frustrated. The time spent reading the material (which is interesting anyways) will more than out weigh the frustration.

 

You could start with less extreme airports, Manchester to Dublin for instance (Dublin seems to be online quite a bit lately). To get used to "how it works". Simbrief.com usually pulls up recent real world routings so that's a helpful start.

 

Also, I'd recommend looking into joining http://www.vatstar.com they are hobbyist as well and will provide lessons for you live to help you out.

[Jim Hurst 1353723]

Then all of a sudden it goes from 0 - 100 real real quick as this is COMPLETELY new to me and I have NO idea what he was talking about or what to do with this information.

 

"Can you accept IFR Route: GOSAM P600 FENIK L612 CROFT"

 

^^My Reaction^^

 

I tell him to stand by as I violently google it everywhere until I just get so freaked out I just closed the 'vPilot'.

 

What does this mean!? What do I do with this information? I found out it is a specific route but NO idea what to do with it since I don't think you can file that GPS route into a Learjet that came with the game.

 

Please help me.

First of all, there's a lot of good advice in this thread, and there are controller's, ATO's (like vatstar), and even us forum visitors that are happy to help if we can.

 

At the risk of being oversimple (and / or boring), I'll try to give you the basic "nutshell" gist.

 

For IFR flights you are required to be in contact with, and under the control of ATC for your flight.

 

[Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming this flight was from Glasgow - Manchester (just guessing from the route), you need a way to get there safely when you can't see the ground (IFR).

 

These days, modern aircraft, have advanced systems to plot a route from A to B using GPS and a published group of waypoints, which are nothing more than arbitrary points on the ground represented by Latitude and Longitude co-ordinates and a published "name" on the charts (like "CROFT") in this case. Without an FMC or GPS you can't find it.

 

In prior times before the advent of GPS, you had (and still have) different types of radio beacons (VOR, NDB etc) that you can physically track to and from with a radio receiver. Those stations also have names, and a frequency to tune for them (ie. Pole Hill VOR -- listed as POL with a frequency of 112.1 MHz).

 

Between these points you can draw lines, and many of these have been drawn and established as official airways.

 

So, a route is little more than the waypoints (GPS or Radio Beacons) and the airways between them.

 

In your IFR flight plan - you tell ATC the route you're intending to fly to get from your Origin Airport to your Destination Airport.

 

Between smaller, less congested airports, that probably covers 80% of the basics. Then there are wrinkles

 

With larger aircraft, bigger airports and m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ive amounts of traffic (in the Real World), all that can get crazy (and dangerous) pretty quickly. To help solve that, larger airports have developed 3 things: SIDs, STARs, and preferred routes.

 

The first two are "standardized" procedures for departing an airport, or arriving at an airport, and they are published for many (most?) larger airports -- Using those is a way to have arrivals and departures using consistent flight paths, with known speeds, altitudes, and headings, and generally makes things much safer, and more orderly.

 

Preferred routes do much the same thing for flights that tend to frequently occur between various destinations. They're usually set up to get you from your departure airport (usually via a SID), to your destination (usually to a STAR). Again, it's just another way for pilots and controllers to all be on the "same page", behaving in known and predictable ways. So, the controller was giving you a preferred route for your flight. As mentioned by other folks, various publications and web sites can help you find these. In the USA, skyvector.com is my preferred site, but there are number of resources out there.

 

The other (big) wrinkle for us FSX guys, is that it's WAY out of date. It doesn't have many of the GPS (RNAV) waypoints in it, so it can be really difficult to fly those routes. The other thing is the FSX GPS is very rudimentary.

 

There are workarounds. First, many payware aircraft DO include advance GPS / FMC's and database updates for the newer navaids. Second, there is software out there that can import a route into a format that can be loaded directly into the default FSX GPS. I use Plan-G for my USA flights. It's free, and it works quite well. There are others, as mentioned by some of the other posters. Third, you can actually update your native FSX install to get current navaids. I don't have the link handy as I type this, but browsing these forums a bit, should turn it up quite easily.

 

Finally, as Pilot In Command, it is up to you to understand what you can and cannot do, given your FSX setup, your particular plane, the equipment it's carrying, and your proficiency.

 

For the default Learjet on default FSX scenery - that route is probably not flyable for you. In that case, you can (and should) respond with "unable - My aircraft is non-RNAV capable. Could I get a different route?". In this case, a non-RNAV route may have been as simple as --> dct DCS dct MCT (direct to Dean Cross VOR, and then direct to Manchester VOR).

 

Finally, don't worry too much. Everyone here realizes that there is a LOT to know to realistically simulate RL aviation flying, and nobody expects us to be perfect. To that end though, comments in your flight plan ("New to VATsim", "Non-RNAV", "Non-English Speaker", "new to IFR", etc.) are the sorts of things that can help you and the controller work smoothly together to help you achieve your flight. Also, of course, keep asking questions, keep studying, and keep learning, and pretty soon, you'll have it down pat.

 

Sorry for the long-winded reply. I tried to distill a LOT of stuff into one post -- I hope it helps.

 

Regards,

Jim

[Robert Shearman Jr]

The key thing is, don't worry if you don't get it all at once. Most of us have been doing this for years and some for decades. Figuring out how to find and fly realistic IFR routes is one of the biggest learning gaps that a new VATSIM pilot faces -- I know it was for me. Spend some time on SimBrief and after "Create New Flight" and "Generate OFP" (make sure "Detailed NavLog" is checked on the right-hand side first), you'll get a series of "download" buttons on the next screen. Choose FSX/P3D format, save it in your Docomeents under Flight Simulator X Files, then from the FSX Free Flight screen choose "Flight Planner" and "Load" to import it.

 

Then file that route as part of your initial flightplan. Make sure you pull up and review any charts for any departure or arrival procedures that are included in there; or, take them out of the flightplan BEFORE you hit "generate OFP" if you don't know how to find or follow them. DO NOT FILE ANY ROUTE YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO FOLLOW!

 

Now, you'll run into issues if the ATC then amends your clearance or shortcuts you. Just respond "unable, default GPS." They'll give you a vector or some other workaround.

 

Hope that helps!

[Don Desfosse]

Sure it can.

 

One option (probably the best one) would be to use use external websites/software (Simbrief, PFPX, Aivlasoft's EFB, FSCommander, etc.) to export a .pln file....

 

All good sites. You may also want to check out vRoute, which I use when flying with the default GPS. Most common airports are included in the free version; I invested in the premium version(very short money for the capability) to be able to access plans for all airports in the world.

 

Some additional reference reading:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=71316

 

Adding the comment "Newbie" in your flight plan can often help controllers know you might need a little help. Heck, I left that in there my first dozen or so flights on VATSIM, even though I hold an RW FAA Airline Transport Pilot certificate; on VATSIM, just knowing how to fly a real airplane doesn't necessarily mean you know how to connect with the network, figure out model matching, figure out how to nurse a 13 year old GPS into the current world, how best to find global routes, etc.

 

Welcome to the community!

[Greg Barber]

Yeah I think the title of the thread spells it out perfectly.

 

You are trying to go from 0 to 100 when perhaps you should go from 0 to 10 first, then take on 20 etc. Personally I don't get why a new pilot can't fly the route he wants, it's not like there's 80 movements an hour going into Heathrow, but that's an entirely different conversation.

 

As others have said, try flying your learjet somewhere smaller and simpler. The problem with the default GPS is that the navigation data may be grossly outdated and the information the controller, simbrief, skyvector etc is using could be quite different to what you can see in your GPS. You can update the navaids etc in your GPS here.

 

Flying and navigating an aircraft is all about preparation. Know exactly where you need to go, before you take off. Compare your GPS flight plan (you can create one in the FSX flight planner and it'll load into your GPS) to the flight plan given by simbrief. If it doesn't match you may have issues with the controller using differnt information, so be preapred for that.

 

At the end of the day, if a controller asks "Can you accept XYZ" and you don't think you can. Simply say you are unable to do that (and perhaps the reason such as, I only have the default GPS and it doesn't have those waypoints).

 

We are all bound by a code of conduct. The controller can't DEMAND that you do anything however you are expected to be familiar with the airspace you are flying in, enough to be able to follow a reasonable instruction. The controller is there to provide a service to you, but he is also there to provide a service to everyone else. Spending valuable time teaching a pilot how to navigate can detract from the service he provides to others.

[Prithvisagar Shivaraman 12]

Yeah I think the title of the thread spells it out perfectly.

 

You are trying to go from 0 to 100 when perhaps you should go from 0 to 10 first, then take on 20 etc. Personally I don't get why a new pilot can't fly the route he wants, it's not like there's 80 movements an hour going into Heathrow, but that's an entirely different conversation.

 

As others have said, try flying your learjet somewhere smaller and simpler. The problem with the default GPS is that the navigation data may be grossly outdated and the information the controller, simbrief, skyvector etc is using could be quite different to what you can see in your GPS. You can update the navaids etc in your GPS here.

 

Flying and navigating an aircraft is all about preparation. Know exactly where you need to go, before you take off. Compare your GPS flight plan (you can create one in the FSX flight planner and it'll load into your GPS) to the flight plan given by simbrief. If it doesn't match you may have issues with the controller using differnt information, so be preapred for that.

 

At the end of the day, if a controller asks "Can you accept XYZ" and you don't think you can. Simply say you are unable to do that (and perhaps the reason such as, I only have the default GPS and it doesn't have those waypoints).

 

We are all bound by a code of conduct. The controller can't DEMAND that you do anything however you are expected to be familiar with the airspace you are flying in, enough to be able to follow a reasonable instruction. The controller is there to provide a service to you, but he is also there to provide a service to everyone else. Spending valuable time teaching a pilot how to navigate can detract from the service he provides to others.

 

As a controller, we never force anyone to use a route. However, we will often suggest preferred routes in order to help with traffic management. Especially when we get people going into Boston, it's a lot easier to give MERIT ROBUC2 rather than some VOR-VOR route. However, if the pilot (or the aircraft) is unable to fly a certain route, we are obligated to accommodate the pilot in the best way possible. But, that is most likely the reason this certain pilot was asked if he could accept a certain route... If he said "I can't do that," the controller would've most likely provided an alternate route, or what is known as "radar vectors", or headings and altitudes provided by ATC to get you from A->B.