Flying in Europe for USA Pilot.

[Robert Cardone 1323915]

I am wondering how difficult it is to fly on Vatsim for someone that has flown mostly in the US system. I know the transistion altitudes are different, but are there any other problems that I could run into. Thinking of flying in Belgium ( been there many times in real life) , UK, France and possibly Norway.

[Luka Stevens]

There's some little things:

- SID's shouldn't be included with your flightplan, as most SID's in Europe end with your first waypoint. Same applies to STAR's.

- Pushback clearance needs to be received from ground (not ramp controller).

- Callsigns are pronounced slightly different: AAL345 should be pronounced "American three four five" and not "American three hundred fourty five".

- Landing clearance can be received quite late (2-3 NM final) as a landing clearance is only given when the runway is clear.

- "Descend and maintain, climb and maintain"aren't used, instead "descend to, climb to" is used.

- Clearance's are usually shorter than in America, for example in Europe the SID, Squawk and sometimes initial climb is given.

-For VFR: when you want to fly circuits, usually the controller will give you instructions or left or right hand pattern, weather info and possible squawk code. When flying from one airport to another usually sector exit point are used (check VFR charts.)

- Links to the real world charts can usually be found on vACC websites

 

That's about everything I can think of.

[Christopher Liu]

This is back to front but it should help

http://viaintercity.com/forums/general-discussion/european-atc-conversion-course-for-north-american-pilots/

[Robert Cardone 1323915]

There's some little things:

- SID's shouldn't be included with your flightplan, as most SID's in Europe end with your first waypoint. Same applies to STAR's.

- Pushback clearance needs to be received from ground (not ramp controller).

- Callsigns are pronounced slightly different: AAL345 should be pronounced "American three four five" and not "American three hundred fourty five".

- Landing clearance can be received quite late (2-3 NM final) as a landing clearance is only given when the runway is clear.

- "Descend and maintain, climb and maintain"aren't used, instead "descend to, climb to" is used.

- Clearance's are usually shorter than in America, for example in Europe the SID, Squawk and sometimes initial climb is given.

-For VFR: when you want to fly circuits, usually the controller will give you instructions or left or right hand pattern, weather info and possible squawk code. When flying from one airport to another usually sector exit point are used (check VFR charts.)

- Links to the real world charts can usually be found on vACC websites

 

That's about everything I can think of.

 

Thanks for the reply. I fly GA aircraft almost exclusively now. In the US, I very rarely use Sids and stars, usually getting vectors to final approach. Is it a requirement in Europe to use Sids and Stars on every IFR flightplan, especially out of smaller airports?

[Luka Stevens]

SID and STAR usually only apply to bigger jets, for GA almost everything is possible, vectors are of course allowed.

[Robert Cardone 1323915]

SID and STAR usually only apply to bigger jets, for GA almost everything is possible, vectors are of course allowed.

 

Thanks.

[Thimo Koolen]

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70855

 

This thread might be an interesting read.

[Matthew Burton 1270824]

From your previous comments, I guess you will be flying around fairly low level. Please note, particularly in the UK, you will often drop outside controller airspace. If this happens, or you depart from outside CAS, you should NOT enter CAS until you have a EXPLICIT clearance to do so. This may require descending, turning, re-routing or orbiting outside until you obtain a clearance. If you are going to be operating outside CAS in the UK, please formularise yourself with UKFIS before doing so.

[Josh Glottmann]

Useful information by Norbert Vorstaedt (archived)

[Magnus Meese]

And if VFR: All controlled airspace requires a clearance to enter, not just the establishment of two-way as in FAA C/D airspace.

[Joshua Black]

Callsigns are pronounced slightly different: AAL345 should be pronounced "American three four five" and not "American three hundred fourty five".

 

This isn't even correct in the US. Never is "three hundred forty five" proper... Every number is spaced. Although I think everyone at some point would say "three forty five" which technically isn't correct either.

[Don Desfosse]

Although I think everyone at some point would say "three forty five" which technically isn't correct either.

Actually, in the US, it is.

 

Reference AIM 4-2-4(a)5:

Air carriers and commuter air carriers having FAA authorized call signs should identify themselves by stating the complete call sign (using group form for the numbers) and the word “super” or “heavy” if appropriate.

 

EXAMPLE-

1. United Twenty Five Heavy.

2. Midwest Commuter Seven Eleven.

 

Reference FAA JO7110.65 2-4-20(a)2:

Air carrier and other civil aircraft having FAA authorized call signs. State the call sign followed by the flight number in group form.

 

NOTE-

“Group form” is the pronunciation of a series of numbers as the whole number, or pairs of numbers they represent rather than pronouncing each separate digit. The use of group form may, however, be negated by four-digit identifiers or the placement of zeros in the identifier.

 

EXAMPLE-

“American Fifty−Two.”

“Delta One Hundred.”

“Eastern Metro One Ten.”

“General Motors Thirty Fifteen.”

“United One Zero One.”

“Delta Zero One Zero.”

“TWA Ten Zero Four.”

[Tim Simpson]

Been thinking of trying some flights in Europe, and this post inspired me. After a day of reading every post I could find yesterday, I gave it a go last night.

 

I intentionally timed it to make sure there was minimal ATC on, so as not to wreck anyone's experience with my lack of familiarity.

 

It was fun, but the instrument charts are quite different. I've NEVER spent so much time flight planning. Took a while to figure out SID's and STAR's with their numbers and letters...ugh. Then found that the STAR is not really the whole STAR, you need to find the accompanying transition chart.....LOL! What is up with that?!? I mean, why would you want all that information on one chart, when you can split it into two charts, just to raise the difficulty level during a busy time of the flight.

 

Definitely an experience! It felt like my first time on the network, all over again.

 

BTW, my inaugural flight was EGLL to LFPG.

 

I think I will make this a round robin flight, and do it a few more times, just to become familiar with how it's done, but I'm just really glad I did the first one at a low volume time.

 

Tim

[Joshua Black]

I stand corrected.

[Dace Nicmane]

Congratulations! You just happened to pick a difficult country for your arrival. Not all Europe is the same. Next time, try Amsterdam or Riga, easy peasy.

[Tim Simpson]

You know, I didn't think of that! I should have asked for a good U.S. to Europe transition flight.

 

So, Amsterdam or Riga? I'll check them out

 

Thanks!

 

Tim

[Thimo Koolen]

Amsterdam Schiphol (EHAM) is pretty easy. If you need help with arrivals or departures into Amsterdam, let me know. And if I'm only, I don't mind helping you out (if traffic allows).

 

Also, I wrote a pretty detailed guide of arriving in and departing from Schiphol, which can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70855&start=45#p503034

[Tim Simpson]

Amsterdam Schiphol (EHAM) is pretty easy. If you need help with arrivals or departures into Amsterdam, let me know. And if I'm only, I don't mind helping you out (if traffic allows).

 

Also, I wrote a pretty detailed guide of arriving in and departing from Schiphol, which can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70855&start=45#p503034

 

Thimo,

 

I took a look at a flight from EGLL to EHAM, and is does look very straight forward.

I read through your guide too, and it is very informative!

 

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

 

Tim

[Magnus Meese]

Starting out in England will be confusing, as they are the most US-like ones on (by) the continent. Where STARs and Transitions in Europe are mostly named by the RTE-connecting / airway-connecting waypoint , the UK does it backwards as the STAR name comes from the last wpt on the procedure. They name SIDs as the rest of us, however.

 

In the end, flying in various places will help you overcome the different ways to interpret the formats of SIDs, STARs and transitions, they are all in the end lateral paths with vertical minimums and/or vertical profiles designed to get you in and out. The difficult part some places is to find which one applies to you. Using a chart service like Jeppview (Navigraph) will help, as the layout/design of the chart will be the same everywhere, which eliminates some confusion.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

I've been watching a (somewhat new) YouTube channel by a professional 737 pilot who does flights on [FSX or P3D, can't tell which] using the PMDG 737NGX, and been thinking about taking the plunge and trying a few flights in Europe. It doesn't hurt matters that my work schedule frequently has me home in the early afternoon eastern-US time, which is prime-time evening ATC coverage time for Europe. My main concern is finding all of the charts, but, at least in the UK I feel like I can probably track them down so I may start there and branch out if I start to get comfortable.

 

From what I understand, most of the UK charts are here: http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=165&Itemid=3.html

 

... although I need to play with it some in order to figure out what's where, I think. I'll probably give it a whirl sometime in the next couple weeks, who knows.

 

FYI, in case anyone's curious about the YouTube channel I mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ_X7kk3XrHbl6ZWQ4wpfkQ

[Thimo Koolen]

Amsterdam Schiphol (EHAM) is pretty easy. If you need help with arrivals or departures into Amsterdam, let me know. And if I'm only, I don't mind helping you out (if traffic allows).

 

Also, I wrote a pretty detailed guide of arriving in and departing from Schiphol, which can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70855&start=45#p503034

 

Thimo,

 

I took a look at a flight from EGLL to EHAM, and is does look very straight forward.

I read through your guide too, and it is very informative!

 

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it.

 

Tim

 

Thank you If you ever have a question about departure from or arrival into Amsterdam, let me know and I'll be glad to help.

[Dace Nicmane]

For anyone considering UK, just be advised that it's a very crowded airspace and it can be quite stressful to get a word in, especially if you've chosen a smaller airport without its own local controllers and need to get your clearance from London Control, count on delays.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Okay, question.

 

I think I am ready to try this next time I see a UK Center (errr, sorry, "Control") position being staffed. I'm sure I can use either SimBrief or ASA Route Finder to create a current usable IFR route, I would start by flying the PMDG NGX with current AIRAC so I won't have any issues with route incompatibilities, I know to look for updated freeware scenery, and at least in the UK I think I know where to find the charts online.

 

The one thing I don't know -- is there some equivalent (or near-so) to FlightAware IFR Route Analyzer outside of the US? My process for flying over here, once I know what airports I want to start & end at, is to punch them into this page (http://flightaware.com/statistics/ifr-route/). That then gives me a list of flights that operate between those two cities, and I can look for one that flies it in a 737 (not necessarily the -8). Once I find one, I'll adopt its callsign and gate [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments (and most often its route, too, although I can also get routes from SimBrief if needed). That way, I know I'm using a callsign and starting and ending gate (errr, "stand") that are consistent with what that airline really uses. I know, I know -- that's more realism than what's needed, but, it's just the way I like to do things, and I know that the controllers will expect that if I'm a Ryanair callsign I should have some clue as to which terminal Ryanair usually heads to after touchdown. I'm just curious if there's some analogous website for a database of European flight routes.

[Dace Nicmane]

You can still use flightaware to find the callsign and aircraft type. For gate, try this site: https://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightStatus/flightStatusByFlight.do Click on Departure/Arrival tab to find out the gate/terminal. Are you planning a domestic flight? Not sure how easy it is to find a 737 flight, as Airbus is more popular in the UK. BAW fly the A320 and only the heavy Boeings. However it shouldn't be too difficult to catch one of the neighboring centers online as well, e.g. Ireland, the home of Ryanair. Their charts are also freely available (link).

[Simon Kelsey]

Rob,

 

As above really. If you have a flight number, Google is your friend for stand etc info: just type in the flight number and you'll get at least terminal info, if not the actual stand if you are approaching the scheduled departure time.

 

For city pairs etc you could try FlightRadar24 - e.g. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airports/lhr/routes (click on a destination and you'll get a list of airlines, flight numbers, departure times etc).

 

As you probably know, the really big scheduled European 737 operators are Ryanair and Norwegian. In the UK Thomson (sorry - TUI Airways) also have a reasonably-sized 737 fleet doing more charter "bucket and spade" type runs to Spain, Greece etc, and similar for Jet2.