OLBA CLOSED

[Mouin El Khechen 923677]

www.vatleb.com is temporary out of service.

[Daniel Hill 810430]

TMI on that web page.

 

A simple notice of suspension of service would suffice. This webpage, I believe, runs close to violating VATSIM rules and regs concerning politicizing real-world events.

[Jeff Clark]

I'd agree that it's getting close to the line as well...

 

Before the second Gulf War, we didn't allow anyone to enforce "no-fly-zones" over Iraqi airspace because some people disagreed with the American policy at that time, and it didn't serve our primary goal of enjoying the simulation of air traffic and ATC.

 

During the Gulf Conflict, we didn't allow people to simulate bombing runs over Baghdad as it would not only be in incredibly bad taste, but some of our members' were being directly affected by that conflict in ways that some of the rest of us hadn't really considered.

 

The real world has many unfortunate conflicts that divide us in real life, and VATSIM has always tried to rise above that, and to simulate the world as we all hope that it will one day be. For this reason, I've always been so happy that Israeli and Arab controllers jointly worked in the Middle East during many flyins, and cooperated in the past in ways that their real-world counterparts couldn't find a way to do.

 

I know that it would be naive to think that p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ions are not aroused over recent events, and I can understand the outrage that prompted Mouin's post. I would hope that the team of controllers in Lebanon would continue to provide their services to our virtual pilots, as they were a real credit to their country in the past, and they would be missed if they weren't part of our network. I hope that one day the world will find a way out this conflict, but until then, I hope that we can at least find a way to work together as have done in the past.

 

We share a hobby that celebrates the best that mankind can achieve. Let's try to resist the urge to also simulate our moments of madness.

 

Jeff Clark

VATSIM Board of Governors

[Ben Zwebner 906832]

We share a hobby that celebrates the best that mankind can achieve. Let's try to resist the urge to also simulate our moments of madness.

I agree with Jeff 100%.

 

What I have always enjoyed about VATSIM is how we can all put our differences aside, ignore the political views of our governments and work together.

 

This morning one of israels GA airports were also hit by missiles however VATIL has announced on their forums that the airport in question (Mahanaiim) shall remain open online as if this never happened.

I would truly be dissapointed to see VATLEB closed...

[Ilan Jonas 860311]

Mouin, you are crossing the line now, and I admit I expected more of you.

Up until now we managed to keep this area free from politics, and I wouldn't be far from the truth if I would call it a perfect harmony. While a group of palestinians operated Gaza airport, they got all the support from their Israeli friends - this is only one example.

We will not allow the use of Vatsim for political purposes like you do now.

Both the acts of terrorism from the Lebanese territory and the violent attacks Israel started in response simply does not exist in our world, hence it will not be discussed any further in a Vatsim related forum/website. It is not too late to admit a mistake, and I do understand the pressure and frustration that led you to do it. I live in northern Israel and I am a prisoner of this conflict just like you are. Our governments will probably be enemies for decades to come, but you and I will remain friends, with different views, different opinions but a lot of respect for each other and a wonderful place to meet and forget about our real world issues.

Now go and do the right thing.

 

With friendship and hopes,

Ilan

[Ben Zwebner 906832]

Mouin, you are crossing the line now, and I admit I expected more of you.

Up until now we managed to keep this area free from politics, and I wouldn't be far from the truth if I would call it a perfect harmony. While a group of palestinians operated Gaza airport, they got all the support from their Israeli friends - this is only one example.

We will not allow the use of Vatsim for political purposes like you do now.

Both the acts of terrorism from the Lebanese territory and the violent attacks Israel started in response simply does not exist in our world, hence it will not be discussed any further in a Vatsim related forum/website. It is not too late to admit a mistake, and I do understand the pressure and frustration that led you to do it. I live in northern Israel and I am a prisoner of this conflict just like you are. Our governments will probably be enemies for decades to come, but you and I will remain friends, with different views, different opinions but a lot of respect for each other and a wonderful place to meet and forget about our real world issues.Now go and do the right thing.

 

With friendship and hopes,

Ilan

 

Well said Ilan...

bravo...

[Alex Long]

Mouin, you are crossing the line now, and I admit I expected more of you.

Up until now we managed to keep this area free from politics, and I wouldn't be far from the truth if I would call it a perfect harmony. While a group of palestinians operated Gaza airport, they got all the support from their Israeli friends - this is only one example.

We will not allow the use of Vatsim for political purposes like you do now.

Both the acts of terrorism from the Lebanese territory and the violent attacks Israel started in response simply does not exist in our world, hence it will not be discussed any further in a Vatsim related forum/website. It is not too late to admit a mistake, and I do understand the pressure and frustration that led you to do it. I live in northern Israel and I am a prisoner of this conflict just like you are. Our governments will probably be enemies for decades to come, but you and I will remain friends, with different views, different opinions but a lot of respect for each other and a wonderful place to meet and forget about our real world issues.

Now go and do the right thing.

 

With friendship and hopes,

Ilan

 

I agree, well said. I do hope all our friends in the region remain safe, and best wishes to all. Living in America, I can't dare possibly say I know what it's like, but I can imagine it must be horrible. Our friends in the region, please do check in time to time so we all know you all are safe.

[Rey Lopez 883899]

Mouin, you are crossing the line now, and I admit I expected more of you.

Up until now we managed to keep this area free from politics, and I wouldn't be far from the truth if I would call it a perfect harmony. While a group of palestinians operated Gaza airport, they got all the support from their Israeli friends - this is only one example.

We will not allow the use of Vatsim for political purposes like you do now.

Both the acts of terrorism from the Lebanese territory and the violent attacks Israel started in response simply does not exist in our world, hence it will not be discussed any further in a Vatsim related forum/website. It is not too late to admit a mistake, and I do understand the pressure and frustration that led you to do it. I live in northern Israel and I am a prisoner of this conflict just like you are. Our governments will probably be enemies for decades to come, but you and I will remain friends, with different views, different opinions but a lot of respect for each other and a wonderful place to meet and forget about our real world issues.Now go and do the right thing.

 

With friendship and hopes,

Ilan

 

Well said Ilan...

bravo...

 

hey ben! be careful over there man sounds like its getting ugly...

[Andrew Tunall 900330]

I unfortunately disagree. As OLBA is Lebanon and Beirut's only international airport, since it is closed in real life, I see no problem with closing it on VATSIM. Just as if Los Angeles International here in the U.S. was inoperative for a long period of time, flights from airline schedules etc. would disappear.

 

That aside, I realize p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ions are high about this. However - statements made by both sides about the Hezbollah attacks being terrorist attacks or state sanctioned acts of war should not be tolerated. Here in the United States, many of us feel conflicted. Personally, I am sad to see that OLBA, a beautiful airport, is now closed ... along with Beirut, another gorgeous city.

 

I hope this is resolved fast, but regardless, I think Lebanese controllers are right to simulate real world operations if their FIR/Region decides to do so. It is they, and not other regions on VATSIM, that ultimately must make that decision.

[Elliot Lezam 895373]

why not just use it and see if they rebuild it huh?

[Jeff Thomas]

Andrew,

I disagree.

 

Meigs field in Chicago was deliberately bulldozed by the mayor against the Illinois State Congress, the FAA, and the Federal Government.

 

It is CLOSED in real life, but we in VZAU operate it just like it were open because it is PART OF THE GAME!

 

I would hate to see real world events interrupt ANYONE's choice of how to use the simulator. You may obstain from flying to those airports for other reasons, but if it is in the GAME, it should be open.

 

Jeff

[Shadi Abo Ahmad 812866]

Guys,

 

The situation in this part of the world is not an easy one! We all wish for better days to come.

Join me in my pray for a better future to everyone.

 

But please do not forget, being part of VATSIM means accepting its vision and rules for a non-political environment so everyone would enjoy this hobby. The current situation of OLBA is political related and not aviation related! Thats why OLBA's Vatsim operations are not to be changed or cancelled in any way.

 

Mouin, as head of Lebanon VACC, you should reconsider this move, and restore VATLEB's original operating website. You and anyone here are free to think and believe as you want, but once we are on VATSIM, we have rules to follow!

 

And to every member of VATAME forum, please note I will moderate any discussion related to political issues! So please avoid such discussions.

[Alexandre Geahel 932157]

Good day to everyone; I just canceled my trip to Lebanon, I am without news from family from there and just saw tragic pictures of OLBA. Let's not have politics on this network, let's be friends and have a good relationship.

 

Unfortunetly as the last days OLBA is being bombed non-stop VATLEB had a meeting, we decided to close our website because :

 

- We cannot give public information concerning Lebanon, OLBA

- We cannot give public OLBA charts

- We cannot give such information to public, our goverments being at war; we prefer to hide our docomeents so they cannot be used either by the Lebanese gov. or the Isreali gov.

 

We would like peace and make more and more friends, OLBA is the 2nd most beautiful airport int he Middle - East to my knowledge (after OMDB). Most of our members are in Lebanon and some are from Isreal; if the Lebanese goverments now learns we have relations with those kind of people it would be not us who would shut the site but our gov. sometimes we cannot avoid politics in our everyday life, hobbies...

 

I would personnaly like your cooperation, some of our members in Lebanon have not given us some news nor signs of life. If you could bare with us until this conflict is finished; when things will calm down, VATLEB will open again (1 week - hopefully- )

 

One thing to be reminded is; our available Air Traffic Controllers will mann OLBA on VATSIM; VATLEB is not closed and operations are not shutdown, only our website .

 

One thing to also not is, some controllers sometimes have : "CYUL airport runway 06R not operational or under construction.." now if I put "runway 16/35; 17/34 and 21/03 closed" what runway is operational .. none, today the Lebanese Civil aviation closed all runways; we are supposed to simulate the NOTAMS and airport rules right? sometimes politics get in our hobbies...

 

OLBA will stay open on VATSIM; in fact I am manning it right now; our website as I said it cannot be operational.

[Peter Nolin 954217]

Meigs field in Chicago was deliberately bulldozed by the mayor against the Illinois State Congress, the FAA, and the Federal Government. It is CLOSED in real life.........

NO!!!! There goes tons of happy memories in flightsim.. Meigs is my little love altough I live in sweden.

[Jeff Thomas]

Peter,

Yes...sorry....

 

Here is a picture of what it looks like today...and a good article on the craziness of Chicago politics....

 

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=21104&rel=1

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

- We cannot give such information to public, our goverments being at war; we prefer to hide our docomeents so they cannot be used either by the Lebanese gov. or the Isreali gov.

 

Oh please, don't give yourself that much credit. You think the government is going to rely on your charts in bombing targets? Be realistic.

 

You are bringing the politics to VATSIM, it doesn't have to be here. All the material on your site should be for SIMULATED purposes only, and provided the server hosting it was not located in Lebanon, I doubt the government would have the ability to shut it down...furthermore, frankly, do you really think they are worried about your website considering all the other things happening?

[Alexandre Geahel 932157]

Nicholas let's try to focus here. The Lebanese gov. can shut us down and can do anything to our members based there. We are being realistic; anything is possible. I would please ask everyone to bare with us as the situation is being more and more hard there. And frankly Nicholas, our charts were for simulated use only and were the only OLBA charts on the net, not to worry our website is being opened again sorry for the inconvenience.

 

OLBA on vatsim will stil be opened.

[Ben Zwebner 906832]

Nicholas let's try to focus here. The Lebanese gov. can shut us down and can do anything to our members based there. We are being realistic; anything is possible. I would please ask everyone to bare with us as the situation is being more and more hard there. And frankly Nicholas, our charts were for simulated use only and were the only OLBA charts on the net, not to worry our website is being opened again sorry for the inconvenience.

 

OLBA on vatsim will stil be opened.

 

Alexandre, if there is anything I can help with, let me know

[Nicholas Bartolotta 912967]

Nicholas let's try to focus here.

 

The sarcastic attitude isn't necessary.

 

And frankly Nicholas, our charts were for simulated use only and were the only OLBA charts on the net, not to worry our website is being opened again sorry for the inconvenience.

 

I think it's safe to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume though the government isn't going to rely on your charts for a war. That was all I was saying...

[Gareth Williams 840232]

Both the acts of terrorism from the Lebanese territory and the violent attacks Israel started in response simply does not exist in our world

 

And long may it continue that way...

 

I hope that I speak for the wider VATSIM community in condemning acts of senseless violence again innocent airfields.......

Regards,

Gareth

Edited July 13, 2006 at 11:59 PM by Guest

[Alexandre Geahel 932157]

Nicholas I was not being sarchastic or being rude, let's finish it here as things are getting worst. Let's end this topic thanks.

[Jeff Clark]

Oh please, don't give yourself that much credit. You think the government is going to rely on your charts in bombing targets? Be realistic.

 

I'd like to suggest that in the current situation, we'd try extra hard to understand each other's positions.

 

If I recall correctly, after 9/11, there were a number of American members openly questionning the future of VATSIM - specifically whether or not the fact that we were teaching amateurs how to fly planes and use the ATC system may have inadvertantly contributed to that incident. I personally know that some of our real-world controllers actually felt real pressure to no longer participate in our network specifically for that reason, and have never returned. In light of that, I don't think that Alexandre's concern for the safety of the Lebanese members is any different.

 

Remember that some political regimes are less "liberal" than others. The Lebanese democracy is very young, and not particularly stable. A part of the governing coalition is actually comprised of members of Hezbollah, the group that Israel says it is targetting. If American ATC were worried that their VATSIM activities might be misunderstood, I can't blame Alexandre for thinking that Lebanese officials might jump to some of the same conclusions. He and his members' fears deserve more understanding in this difficult situation.

 

I think this saying really applies here: "If you want to really understand someone, you need to walk a mile in their moccasins".

 

Jeff Clark

VATGOV6

[Ido Rosenthal 899496]

We would like peace and make more and more friends, OLBA is the 2nd most beautiful airport int he Middle - East to my knowledge (after OMDB). Most of our members are in Lebanon and some are from Isreal; if the Lebanese goverments now learns we have relations with those kind of people it would be not us who would shut the site but our gov.

 

actually this makes sense...

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hello Jeff,

 

thanks for your wise words and to everyone else I would like to express my gratitude that you are staying calm, non-aggressive and objective! I am very impressed by this, keep up the spirit of VATSIM-friendships, even if times in real life are hard and very disturbing!

 

You VATSIM-guys in Lebanon and Israel can be sure of our moral support, please take care of you and your families.

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

I agree. Politics should be left out of VATSIM. I'm currently in Amman and I have a lot of friends in Lebanon that I am worried about. Politics is the last thing I want to think of while in flight.

 

However, given the fact that OLBA has issued NOTAMs that all runways are closed, in the spirit of simulating airport operations, I beleive that VATLEB should honor that particular NOTAM, in the name of realism. Forget the reason why that NOTAM was issued, that's political, but we're simply reading the NOTAM for what it is - and if it says that all runways are closed, then all runways are closed.

 

After all, if KSFO or KORD issued a NOTAM that one of its runways were closed, I think that many of us would take that NOTAM seriously and apply it to our VATSIM operations for the sake of realism - thus I see no problem here.

 

However, I'm not in any position of power to make any sort of desicion - but can simply offer my two cents.