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It's hard to control....


Dean Hoover 917799
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Dean Hoover 917799
Posted
Posted

.....when you get kicked off the network every 5 minutes.

 

Please remember:

 

1. I'm not placing blame.

2. I'm not saying it's anyone's fault.

3. I don't think it's a radical right-winged conspiracy.

4. I'm sure George W. Bush had nothing to do it.

5. I'm fairly certain Bill O'Reilly doesn't even know we can do this over the internet.

 

I would just like it fixed so I can control. That's all.

 

I'm asking the bosses, if you know how to fix it, please fix it. This happens way too often not to be put as a very high priority.

 

I doubt you can use a network admin, but if you can, let me know.

 

"And... I'm... through!" <--- stolen from MAD TV!

Dean Hoover

MTN1264 - Mountain Air Virtual Airlines

Training Administrator - Salt Lake City ARTCC

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Brad Littlejohn
Posted
Posted
.....when you get kicked off the network every 5 minutes.

 

I would just like it fixed so I can control. That's all.

 

I'm asking the bosses, if you know how to fix it, please fix it. This happens way too often not to be put as a very high priority.

 

I doubt you can use a network admin, but if you can, let me know.

 

"And... I'm... through!" <--- stolen from MAD TV!

 

I don't know what to say, except that It Works For Me[tm].

 

I controlled for a good 2 1/2 hours last night without a single disconnect, let alone any issues that weren't pilot/traffic related

 

What we need is some serious reproduceable proof. Something that can always trigger this, and isn't spontaneous. When we have that, we can isolate it down to what is happening at the time the disconnect is triggered, and work on a fix.

 

It's just that with some people complaining about disconnects, and it not happening at all with others on a consistent basis, it is hard to say that there is indeed a problem on the Network.

 

BL.

Brad Littlejohn

ZLA Senior Controller

27

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Timothy Boger 942264
Posted
Posted

Are the liberal high taxes preventing us from buying more expensive servers?

 

 

In all seriousness, and no offense, but perhaps some of the problem may lie in your ISP/router/computer/LAN.

Timothy Boger

ZMP ATM!

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Jay Shepherd 919640
Posted
Posted
Are the liberal high taxes preventing us from buying more expensive servers?

 

 

In all seriousness, and no offense, but perhaps some of the problem may lie in your ISP/router/computer/LAN.

 

I think he is refering to pilots networks not his own, it seems I'm seeing a lot of pilots with this happening the fact that it is at specific intervals (ie. roughly 5 minutes) makes me believe people need to learn what the words "port forwarding" mean.

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Rey Lopez 883899
Posted
Posted
Are the liberal high taxes preventing us from buying more expensive servers?

 

 

In all seriousness, and no offense, but perhaps some of the problem may lie in your ISP/router/computer/LAN.

 

I think he is refering to pilots networks not his own, it seems I'm seeing a lot of pilots with this happening the fact that it is at specific intervals (ie. roughly 5 minutes) makes me believe people need to learn what the words "port forwarding" mean.

 

ok so now we ask our pilots to know everything about flying and also everything about computers and the internet?

The thoughts and/or words or any general things that are expressed above are not a direct reflection of the views of the actual poster myself, Rey Lopez, and should be disregarded and left unread.

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Jim Johnson 814050
Posted
Posted
Are the liberal high taxes preventing us from buying more expensive servers?

 

 

In all seriousness, and no offense, but perhaps some of the problem may lie in your ISP/router/computer/LAN.

 

I think he is refering to pilots networks not his own, it seems I'm seeing a lot of pilots with this happening the fact that it is at specific intervals (ie. roughly 5 minutes) makes me believe people need to learn what the words "port forwarding" mean.

 

The problem he's referring to is not a problem involving incorrect router settings. Whatever it is, it disconnects large numbers of people from USA servers at the same time. It seems almost like a server split, but happens quite often. I've never been disconnected from the Oceania server, but I have been disconnected from all of the USA ones.

Jim Johnson

VP - Membership (VATGOV12)

j.johnson(at)vatsim.net

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Jay Shepherd 919640
Posted
Posted

My mistake I guess he his refering the "server splits" that happen when controlling.

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Joe Caban 844086
Posted
Posted
I've never been disconnected from the Oceania server, but I have been disconnected from all of the USA ones.

 

OCEANIA is the only server that never seems to fail.

Regards,

JX

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Bryan Wollenberg 810243
Posted
Posted

OCEANIA is the only server that never seems to fail.

 

That's what I thought too, until I was kicked off of that one tonight.

Bryan Wollenberg

ZLA!

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Dean Hoover 917799
Posted
Posted
In all seriousness, and no offense, but perhaps some of the problem may lie in your ISP/router/computer/LAN.

 

No offense taken.

 

However, I seriously doubt it's my settings. Not when after connecting up on another server, I have two pilots and a controller from another ARTCC saying stuff like 'It kicked me off, too.' and 'When are they going to fix this &^%&?'.

 

OCEANIA is the only server that never seems to fail.

 

That was the last server that kicked me out.

 

I think it's important to note that this happens when I am at home (Road Runner) or at work (Verizon Business); desktop or laptop. There is something going on with people getting disconnected. If senior management is just blowing this off as just a personal ISP/router/computer thing, then the real problem will never get solved.

 

I said I'd help if you want, bosses.

Dean Hoover

MTN1264 - Mountain Air Virtual Airlines

Training Administrator - Salt Lake City ARTCC

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Sean Reeder 961605
Posted
Posted

hmmmmmmmm..........

the west server has never had any problems when ive been on

never one disconnect

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Brian Beach 915973
Posted
Posted

I ALWAYS use the USA-W server, it has provided me with much better connections than ANY other on the VATSIM network!

Brian Beach

VatsimPHP Developer: http://www.bbflights.com/VatsimPHP/

AFA Detroit Hub Director: http://www.flyafa.com/

userbar603862kx9.gif

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Jay Hsu 926068
Posted
Posted

5. I'm fairly certain Bill O'Reilly doesn't even know we can do this over the internet.

 

What has papa bear have to do with that? (That's what Stephen Colbert calls O'Reilly)

Jay Hsu

ZME ARTCC

VATPRC Resource Manager

http://www.vatprc.net

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Norm Hare 907837
Posted
Posted

I think it happens when the janitor trips over the CAT5 patch cord.

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Matthew Treptau 957518
Posted
Posted

I have problems with my internet going out all of the sudden for a few minutes. It will be fine and the sudden the green internet light on the router goes out and no more internet for a few minutes. The weird thing is that it always seems to do it the most in the morning between 9:00 and 11:00. Not sure if its my ISP or what. What exactly does port forwarding do? Could that be the problem?

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Michael Cassidy 970816
Posted
Posted

Last night there was definitely an outage for the USA servers, and I and many other controllers and pilots got dumped. I logged into other internet services (e.g. Teamspeak) to verify that it wasn't my netowrk. After about 5 mins, we got back into the west server, but during that time I tried S3 and SE as well.

Michael C[Mod - Happy Thoughts]idy (970816)

vatusaacadgradpp9.jpg

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Michael Gold
Posted
Posted

My record is 8 disconnects in 20 minutes sitting on the ramp in Charlotte on the... S3 server I think it was.

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Jeff Thomas
Posted
Posted

Lest we all forget, there are also all sorts of "bots" and "spiders" and just plain mean kiddies out there that attempt to hack our little neck of the world.

 

As we have grown in popularity, and generate a lot of network "attention", more and more of these types of activities are going to come at us.

 

Patience is the key. Do not think for an instant that it is lost on the founders or the board of governors who probably spend a majority of their time "maintaining" this network than actually enjoying the hobby.

 

All free things come with some type of sacrifice. How hard is it to wait a bit then reconnect? I do it all the time... I consider it just part of the game. Imagine working JFK approach when the power went out

 

Jeff

Jeff Thomas

VP-IT

https://joinava.org

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Dean Hoover 917799
Posted
Posted
All free things come with some type of sacrifice. How hard is it to wait a bit then reconnect? I do it all the time... I consider it just part of the game. Imagine working JFK approach when the power went out

 

So, what your saying is because it's free I can't complain? I don't think so!

 

I have sacrificed. I sacrified it kicking me off several times a night, several nights over the last month of so.

 

The theory that because something costs less (or free) must be inferior is a cop-out. If a server is supposed to be up 100 percent, then it should be up 100 percent. When it's down for maintanence, that's understandable. When it's down for a glitch, that understandable. When it's got a hardware problem, most will remember when it happened to them. But when a server is down several times during the night, over several nights, anyone that accesses that server has a right to complain, whether it's free or not!

 

Hotmail and Yahoo! Mail are free.... let's see the calm skies around the world when they go down 5-10 times during the night over a month's period of time.

 

My time to VATSIM is also free, sir. And, I guarantee you I take my time seriously.

Dean Hoover

MTN1264 - Mountain Air Virtual Airlines

Training Administrator - Salt Lake City ARTCC

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Norman Blackburn
Posted
Posted

Dean,

 

A few points for you to ponder.

 

Where did it say the servers would be 100%?

I must have missed the part that said we had rights to complain.

 

I can guarantee that you are not alone in taking time seriously. Just think though how long it took you to type your post and compare that to how long it would have taken to click again on the connect button.

Norman

sig_FSLBetaTester.jpg

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Dean Hoover 917799
Posted
Posted
I can guarantee that you are not alone in taking time seriously. Just think though how long it took you to type your post and compare that to how long it would have taken to click again on the connect button.

 

I can now see why other people that I talk to don't even bother with this forum. Instead of addressing the issue (or post), I am now in a position where I have to defend myself.

 

Everyone, please forget this post was ever written.

 

I am SO happy that I am with VATUSA. Since starting with VATSIM, I have NEVER have had any problems with connecting to the AWESOME servers we have here. Servers that are FREE for use exclusively for my enjoyment, so therefore any complaints brought should only be viewed as a personal problem, and not the result of ANYTHING that VATSIM or VATUSA might have to be involved in.

 

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to SIGN IN to the VATUSA forum and tell the world just how great everything is.

Dean Hoover

MTN1264 - Mountain Air Virtual Airlines

Training Administrator - Salt Lake City ARTCC

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Norman Blackburn
Posted
Posted

Much more pleasant

 

That said, we all know there are issues but complaining wont make them go away. Some time ago the VP Development sent a worldwide NOTAM asking for [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance. Thankfully there are those who work without reward to try to make our hobby even greater than it already is.

Norman

sig_FSLBetaTester.jpg

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Harv Stein
Posted
Posted

Thanks for your kind words Dean. Makes all our efforts all the more enjoyable. Harv.

Harv Stein

Founding Member - VATSIM

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Joshua Ridderhoff 873800
Posted
Posted

That said, we all know there are issues but complaining wont make them go away. Some time ago the VP Development sent a worldwide NOTAM asking for [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance. Thankfully there are those who work without reward to try to make our hobby even greater than it already is.

 

Norman,

 

Trust me when I say that I feel for the guys working behind the scenes on this network. I'm a web developer myself, and stuff happens that has to get fixed and 99% of the time you get all the flak & little-to-none of the thanks (take Wed. when I spent 10 hours repairing MySQL and phpBB thanks to a crashed table... most folks aren't even aware of the problem, because I spent 10 hours trying to fix it... as I like to say, I do it for the pride ). So, I definitely don't minimize the work they're doing.

 

I would possibly comment that it's arguable that everybody on this network -- controllers, pilots, admins alike -- work without reward for the betterment of this network. I understand what you're trying to say, but I also can appreciate that the way you said that might put some folks off (e.g. last I checked, no controllers for any ARTCC/FIR/VACC get paid a salary for the hours they give to this network to provide the ATC services that keep it "in business").

 

Anyway... on to the main thought I had. I think you're right -- everybody knows that "something" isn't 100% with the network. I think we've known for a long time that's the case. I think the source of all this disgruntlement comes from the fact that the network gurus, by way of the management, just keep saying "no news to us, we already asked for help, stop complaining" (heavily paraphrased).

 

Maybe it would quench a few folks' thirst if all of this problem reporting didn't seem to be getting filed in the giant, bottomless pit. We know there's a problem. You guys know there's a problem. So, great -- we know there's a problem... and those who are in a position to help have, by and large, stepped up to the plate (I would hope) and are helping. Maybe rather than just say "hey, we already asked for help, stop complaining" maybe a sticky thread somewhere that gives a periodic status update would help. For instance, "Here's what the network gurus are seeing as problems, here's what they've identified as potential culprits so far, here's what corrective actions/theories we're testing to resolve the problem so far, etc."

 

The mature folks here know that it takes time to resolve sporadic bugs like this, so we're not expecting a full whitepaper, but maybe just a visible sign that there actually is progress being made would quell all of those who keep saying that "VATSIM isn't doing anything about it."

 

Appreciate your time...

/s/ Josh Ridderhoff

ZLC Senior Controller

Fly ZLC! | ZLC Pilot & Controller Forums

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Michael Adams 961156
Posted
Posted

Well also remember they removed one of the VATSIM servers so all that traffic that usually connected to that server has obviously been absorbed by the remaining three USA servers. Think of these servers just like an IRC connection....once too many people are on the server and it can't keep up with the bandwidth it has....it will split. The VATSIM servers really are no different. It was just a very busy night for pilots and for ATC alike.

 

My suggestion.....if all possible....reinstate the VATSIM server that was removed to help out with the traffic. JMHO.

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