S1s/GND & DEL being able to post ATIS

[1341101]

Hey guys,

 

This is a general question which I am asking from behalf of my vACC. There's been a lot of rumour that GND/DEL (including S1s) are now allowed to post ATISes without any control higher than them. I've seen GND posting ATISes and people from various division forums confirming this. However, we weren't able to find any actual valid docomeentation in both the CoC and the CoR and other docomeents, regarding ATISes. Has there been any valid docomeentation which was released regarding this? Thanks!

 

David

[Tomas Hansson]

The Code of Conduct states:

 

Quote

C7 - A controller may make one additional connection to the VATSIM Network to provide an airport voice ATIS at facilities which have an ATIS in real life. ...

 

The old CoC placed a restriction that it had to be a Tower controller or above (possibly delegating the ATIS to a controller below). The revised CoC removes this restriction making possible for Delivery and Ground controllers to post an ATIS. Runway [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ignments in such ATIS would be recommendations only since DEL/GND does not control the runways.

Mod comment: This is now outdated. The new CoC allows ground controllers to post ATIS messages.

[Bernardo Reis]

However, the CoR states:

 

11. VOICE AUTOMATIC TERMINAL INFORMATION SERVICE (ATIS). AS PROVIDED FOR IN PARAGRAPHS A(8)(a) and (b) OF THE CODE OF CONDUCT, A CONTROLLER IS PERMITTED TO CREATE A SECOND CONNECTION TO THE VATSIM NETWORK USING HIS OR HER CID FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING VOICE ATIS TO PILOTS. A CONTROLLER WISHING TO PROVIDE VOICE ATIS MUST MEET EACH OF THE FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS:

a. THE CONTROLLER MUST HAVE AN S1 RATING OR HIGHER;

b. AN ATIS MAY BE CREATED ONLY FOR FACILITIES WHICH HAVE A REAL-WORLD ATIS;

c. THERE MUST BE A CONTROLLER PROVIDING LOCAL CONTROL (TOWER) SERVICES AT THE FIELD FOR WHICH THE ATIS IS BEING CREATED. THIS CAN BE AN OVERLYING CENTER OR APPROACH CONTROLLER;(...)

 

If you only have a GND/DLV controller online, you have no one providing the TWR service, not fulfilling the c) paragraph.

[Mats Edvin Aaro]

The CoR will be updated to reflect the changes in the CoC. Until then, follow the CoC - those are the updated guidelines.

[Brodie Murdoch]

Sorry to bring up an old post but it kinda needed to be said. Just 1 question as mentioned the new CoC removes the phrase "Local controller must be present" Can a Delivery or Ground Controller choose a active runway for the ATIS as in the VATSIM GRP Appendix II)E its under Tower Operations to select a suitable active runway.

 

Kind Regards

[Chriss Klosowski]

If I'm not mistaken this has been brought up possibly? I remember somewhere saying that they might re-do the GRP with S1 requirements. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.

[Tristan Garratt]

Chriss and Brodie,

From memory the Ground/Delivery controller can recommend a runway, but not enforce it.

This would mean they cannot scold arrivals for landing on the wrong runway.

This is just from what I have heard in several ARTCCs and vACCs.

[Liesel Downes]

C7 - A controller may make one additional connection to the VATSIM Network to provide an airport voice ATIS at facilities which have an ATIS in real life. There must be an accompanying text version, which shall always be in English. The ATIS shall be formatted in accordance with the Global Controller/ATIS Information Policy (https://www.vatsim.net/docomeents/global ... ion-policy).

 

As others said before, ignore the CoR - S1's are allowed to setup an ATIS. However as they don't control the runways, it's just going to be a recommendation for what runways to use.

[Michael Kuhne]

Probably there is some post somewhere in the depths of this forum answering my question... Maybe somebody can post the respective link as an answer, as I didn't find it.

 

I am aware that a GND-controller does not control the RWY in use, as this is outside of his AoR. Nonetheless he attributes SIDs to a specific RWY, even if nobody is online controlling the RWY at his airport. So he probably even indicates what RWY he is using in his controller information, which is not forbidden according to the CoR. Of courses a pilot could request a clearance for another RWY, but why should he if performance permitts.

Pilots often ask why there is no ATIS available if there is a controller online (they probably didn't read the CoR). As we controllers want to provide the best service possible, why is it not allowed to provide an ATIS for the GND controller (without having anybody above him)? Just not being allowed to select the RWY in use does not seem to make much sense in this regard, as other means will be used and with an ATIS the pilots can prepare earlier for the expected clearance (both in- and outbound) and also have weather information, etc. The arrival traffic is therefore not "lost in space" and has a suggestion regarding what RWY should/could be used. He at least has to decide against that and knows in that case that he may face opposite traffic if not following the suggested RWY in use.
 

I thought first that this rule is there to limit the voice server load, but that cannot be an valid reason in the current time. Second thought was that a GND controller is not able to decide what RWY he uses, but for the clearance he has to decide anyway and the SOPs that I know dictate quite precisely what RWY configuration has to be used for any given circumstances. And even if there is an ATIS a pilot can request another RWY for whatever reason. It even helps in order to create a safe and orderly traffic flow for all concerned, two out of three of the primary tasks of ATC. So no reason for not providing an ATIS as GND.

So, why is this rule really in place? Thanks for your feedback on this.

[Morten Jelle]

Michael, it is allowed for GND controllers to have an ATIS. So forgive me if I don't understand your question, but it is litterally written by others in this topic?

[Michael Kuhne]

But only  in the following case:

c. THERE MUST BE A CONTROLLER PROVIDING LOCAL CONTROL (TOWER) SERVICES AT THE FIELD FOR WHICH THE ATIS IS BEING CREATED. THIS CAN BE AN OVERLYING CENTER OR APPROACH CONTROLLER;(...)

I am talking about the situation, where this is not the case...

14 hours ago, Michael Kuhne said:

why is it not allowed to provide an ATIS for the GND controller (without having anybody above him)?

 

[Tomas Hansson]

Since the new Code of Conduct came into effect a delivery/ground controller can post an ATIS with anyone providing local control. You are quoting and old version of the CoC.

[Michael Kuhne]

Thanks, didn't realise that the quote on top of this thread was already outdated 😉