Alleviating ATC Callsigns

[Michael LaRosh]

As pilots I'm sure we have all ran into this. You are flying, you were sent a contact me by a controller and you contact them as requested. But when the controller responds, they ID themselves with a different name. For example you are flying into Dulles (KIAD) and the contact me you got was from IAD_APP. When you contact IAD_APP you said "Dulles Approach (Callsign) ….". But then the controller responds with "(Callsign) Potomac Approach …. ". To alleviate this would you like if the radio name with the frequency displayed is in the pilot clients and maps?

Instead of currently

 

New/Suggested format

Albuquerque Center - 127.850

LA/Los Angeles Center - 125.8

Houston Center - 123.650

Socal Approach - 124.500

Socal Departure - 124.300

and so on

Edited March 31, 2021 at 05:13 AM by michael LaRosh

[Joshua Jenkins]

It’s one of those things, in my opinion, that you learn with time and experience. Those callsigns are what ATC logs on with and I can imagine the programming nightmare it would be to find out every possible log-on and change all that or convert it to “pilot friendly” names. Then you also need to consider the fact that the ATC callsign can change depending on what other controllers are online (e.g. CYVR_APP is “Vancouver Terminal” until CYVR_DEP is also online in which case CYVR_APP then becomes “Vancouver Arrival”). Sometimes letters or numbers can be appended to the callsigns and could mean different things (e.g. _S_ in the callsign could mean “student” or “south” depending on the context) so having vpilot/xpilot/swift figure that out on the fly may be near impossible. Often the controllers’ spoken callsign can be found in the controllers’ info/remarks (right click on the callsign in vpilot and click “request controller info” I believe). At the end of the day getting the spoken callsign right the first time isn’t a big deal and ATC generally doesn’t really care either. Heck, I’ve been called Toronto Center while working CYVR_TWR before.

[Michael LaRosh]

27 minutes ago, Josh Jenk said:

It’s one of those things, in my opinion, that you learn with time and experience. Those callsigns are what ATC logs on with and I can imagine the programming nightmare it would be to find out every possible log-on and change all that or convert it to “pilot friendly” names. Then you also need to consider the fact that the ATC callsign can change depending on what other controllers are online (e.g. CYVR_APP is “Vancouver Terminal” until CYVR_DEP is also online in which case CYVR_APP then becomes “Vancouver Arrival”). Sometimes letters or numbers can be appended to the callsigns and could mean different things (e.g. _S_ in the callsign could mean “student” or “south” depending on the context) so having vpilot/xpilot/swift figure that out on the fly may be near impossible. Often the controllers’ spoken callsign can be found in the controllers’ info/remarks (right click on the callsign in vpilot and click “request controller info” I believe). At the end of the day getting the spoken callsign right the first time isn’t a big deal and ATC generally doesn’t really care either. Heck, I’ve been called Toronto Center while working CYVR_TWR before.

To some extent this is wrote from a US prospective. In the since of where we have big consolidated Terminal (APP/DEP) areas where we sign in as something that's no where close to our spoken callsign.

Then on the controller info front. As a fellow controller the problem there is that as we know not all pilots bother to check ATC INFO. Witch in turn causes ATC not to post. So its a cycle that I we can fic by making this change. 

[Robert Shearman Jr]

As a controller in ZDC where we have that big Potomac Consolidated TRACON (the exact example you used), I agree with Josh that it really isn't that big a deal that we need to spend a ton of programming resources to fix.  Potomac covers BWI, IAD, DCA, RIC, and satellites.  Whether a ZDC APP/DEP controller is covering all of those sectors, some of those sectors, or only one of those sectors depends on whether they've been trained and certified on certain pieces of the airspace, as well as what other APP/DEP controllers are online and splitting coverage with them.  The same thing happens in SoCal, NorCal, New York, and Boston, among others.  Being called "Baltimore Approach" instead of "Potomac Approach" is not that huge a problem.  Real-world pilots occasionally do it too (reference the linked video below).  So I'm not sure why it's a huge issue that needs to be fixed.

).

Edited March 31, 2021 at 04:44 PM by Robert Shearman Jr

[Samuel Rey]

Josh touched on this, but chect the controller info first. In vPilot you can double-click the callsign. I know that, at least for the UK, it usually includes the callsign in the first line.

[Dustin Rider]

I agree with the general sentiment of the thread in that this is such a small issue that there really is no reason to divert resources to it. As Robert said above, pilots call various ATC facilities by the wrong name, even after being told the name of the facility by the transferring controller. There are plenty of resources already available to pilots to figure out the proper callsign, from the controller's info to my personal favorite, the charts.

[Brad Littlejohn]

1 hour ago, Dustin Rider said:

I agree with the general sentiment of the thread in that this is such a small issue that there really is no reason to divert resources to it. As Robert said above, pilots call various ATC facilities by the wrong name, even after being told the name of the facility by the transferring controller. There are plenty of resources already available to pilots to figure out the proper callsign, from the controller's info to my personal favorite, the charts.

 

The bold is very true. If the pilot is using any type of chart for their flight, the proper callsign is depicted on the chart. In the US, you should see the frequencies and applicable callsigns in the top left or top right of every chart, including what the position is named.

 

BL.

 

[Tyler Wood]

I often find radars in Europe quite confusing. It may look like approach, but is actually radar - and when there are multiple radars online it can get a bit overwelming, especially if one is new.

That being said, it is something that I just got used to with time. If I'm in unfamiliar airspace, at an unfamiliar airport, or in any way unsure, the .atis (callsign) is the first thing I look at. Personally, it's quite disappointing when nothing shows up on it - I've found quite a few twitch streams thanks to this, especially in the US.

 

Random observation - the other night I noticed a ton of controllers in Toronto using their vatsim ID instead of their name. Is this a new thing? Or maybe vatspy was having some issues.

[Lauri Uusitalo]

14 hours ago, Samuel Rey said:

Josh touched on this, but chect the controller info first. In vPilot you can double-click the callsign. I know that, at least for the UK, it usually includes the callsign in the first line.

Same with xPilot. That is what I use to check the callsign first.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

12 hours ago, Tyler Wood said:

Random observation - the other night I noticed a ton of controllers in Toronto using their vatsim ID instead of their name. Is this a new thing? Or maybe vatspy was having some issues.

It became allowable with the most recent overhaul of the Code of Conduct (I think maybe a year-and-a-half ago or so?) to sign on with (a) your full name, (b) your full name but a common shortening of your first name (such as Rob instead of Robert), (c) *just* your first name or a common shortening, or (d) just your CID.  There was a big discussion in here about how it has depersonalized the network some -- but in the name of protecting minors and others who don't want their identity stalked, it's something we have to allow.

[Kirk Christie]

 

Edited April 2, 2021 at 03:20 AM by Kirk Christie

[Tyler Wood]

19 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

It became allowable with the most recent overhaul of the Code of Conduct (I think maybe a year-and-a-half ago or so?) to sign on with (a) your full name, (b) your full name but a common shortening of your first name (such as Rob instead of Robert), (c) *just* your first name or a common shortening, or (d) just your CID.  There was a big discussion in here about how it has depersonalized the network some -- but in the name of protecting minors and others who don't want their identity stalked, it's something we have to allow.

I personally don't have an issue with it, but can understand.

Thank you.