real world atis

[Mike Teague]

in the latest FSlabs a320 update, they added a feature in the ACARS atis function so that when there is no vatsim atis available, it pulls the real world FAA d-atis instead.. very handy.

i know a lot of us have already been using various ways to get this info to use online when there is no controller, i wonder if its possible to do something like this on the network itself through the pilot clients..  possibly even make it recommended practice to use it (minimize "wrong" direction operations)

i realize there is official policy to the effect of "uncontrolled is uncontrolled" but i suspect a lot of people just dont even know the information is out there and would use it if they had it easily available.

 

 

[Koen Meier]

Unfortunately it seems only the US has such a service. People can easily just use the metar through their weather addons.

[Robert Shearman Jr]

My personal feeling is that I would prefer pilots *not* have easy access to this information, although I support those using it who know how as long as they remember that the VATSIM ATIS takes precedence.  There's already enough times when controllers get flack from pilots because we're running the airport in the opposite flow from the real world, that I wouldn't want the network to support anything which would encourage or exacerbate this.

(Most often, it happens when the wind changes direction but remains less than 10kt, but the real world airport stays in the tailwind configuration because flipping the airspace is so much more difficult than doing it on VATSIM with a much lower level of traffic saturation.  On VATSIM I'm gonna go ahead and run the configuration aligned with the wind.) 

Edited April 1, 2021 at 12:35 PM by Robert Shearman Jr

[Tobias Dammers]

55 minutes ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Most often, it happens when the wind changes direction but remains less than 10kt, but the real world airport stays in the tailwind configuration because flipping the airspace is so much more difficult than doing it on VATSIM with a much lower level of traffic saturation.  On VATSIM I'm gonna go ahead and run the configuration aligned with the wind.

Plus IRL it's safe to assume that pilots are competent enough to judge whether the tailwind is within limits, and if so, perform a perfectly safe tailwind landing. Whereas on VATSIM, ...

[Mike Teague]

22 hours ago, Robert Shearman Jr said:

My personal feeling is that I would prefer pilots *not* have easy access to this information, although I support those using it who know how as long as they remember that the VATSIM ATIS takes precedence.  There's already enough times when controllers get flack from pilots because we're running the airport in the opposite flow from the real world, that I wouldn't want the network to support anything which would encourage or exacerbate this.

(Most often, it happens when the wind changes direction but remains less than 10kt, but the real world airport stays in the tailwind configuration because flipping the airspace is so much more difficult than doing it on VATSIM with a much lower level of traffic saturation.  On VATSIM I'm gonna go ahead and run the configuration aligned with the wind.) 

point taken

however, there are airports where there are sop's though that REALLY prefer one flow and vatsim doesnt really diverge from the real world.. im thinking klax in particular.. i think departs to the east maybe 2 or 3 days per year typically only when the santa ana winds really kick up. however on vatsim if the wind is 1 kt out of 090 you'll usually start getting random people departing east and making everyone whos sticking with the normal flow get anxious 🙂

 

 

 

[Koen Meier]

It is more that pilots don’t really read the airport information charts telling about the procedures for tailwind components. You won’t solve it with having atis available I feel. Generally an atis means that a controller is also active. 

[Brad Littlejohn]

11 hours ago, Mike Teague said:

point taken

however, there are airports where there are sop's though that REALLY prefer one flow and vatsim doesnt really diverge from the real world.. im thinking klax in particular.. i think departs to the east maybe 2 or 3 days per year typically only when the santa ana winds really kick up. however on vatsim if the wind is 1 kt out of 090 you'll usually start getting random people departing east and making everyone whos sticking with the normal flow get anxious 🙂

 

Don't get me started. 

It isn't just the wind direction that some pilots overlook; it is also the lack of knowing the SOPs for the airport in question, especially if those SOPs are time restricted. Case in point, since you brought up LAX: How many still decide to land to the west after midnight, when the second part of noise abatement procedures are in effect, where we land to the east, and depart to the west. Knowing when that occurs and estimating the flying time relative to the time you'll be wheels down would help pilots back at the flightplan filing and clearance delivery portion of a flight, so they won't get frustrated when they have to reprogram their FMS mid-flight because of lack of knowing that particular SOP in relation to airport operations.

 

11 hours ago, Koen Meier said:

It is more that pilots don’t really read the airport information charts telling about the procedures for tailwind components. You won’t solve it with having atis available I feel. Generally an atis means that a controller is also active. 

Don't get me started here, either. 😈

For this, we'd be diving back into the 20 year old argument of "ATIS is not controller info" and "ATIS is not METAR". If anything, just a simple METAR reading would be the equivalent of ASOS or AWOS, in which neither provide active runways in use, nor any airport-specific NOTAMs. 

As far as Controller Info goes, the only thing it has that is similar to the ATIS is the ATC frequencies open/in use. Other than that, they would be two mutually exclusive things, unless the controller decides to put in the METAR reading for the position they are running.

A prime example of this is the VASAviation clip of when MDW and LAS were closed due to ATC testing positive for COVID. In the ATIS for each airport, there was no METAR or weather observation, as that is available by AWOS or ASOS. Only ATC frequencies were mentioned. As they were closed, no runway info was given (both airports were uncontrolled).

Las Vegas and Midway Towers Evacuated - Controllers Test Positive

BL.

 

[Tobias Dammers]

On 4/2/2021 at 1:17 PM, Koen Meier said:

It is more that pilots don’t really read the airport information charts telling about the procedures for tailwind components. You won’t solve it with having atis available I feel. Generally an atis means that a controller is also active. 

FWIW, even if you make it as easy as EHAM, people STILL use all the wrong runways.

[Tyler Wood]

I'd love to be corrected on this, but to date it doesn't look like I can find active runways in the US as easy as Canada. I'm well aware this is still not solving the problem, but I find this helpful. If anyone has info on other locations I'm all ears. As someone with a visual impairment it is almost impossible to read a chart. Having text equivalents is incredibly helpful, and that also goes for holding patterns (most often used in Europe). I can get altitude and speed restrictions via text thankfully. 

 

here is what I mean

[Mike Teague]

20 hours ago, Tyler Wood said:

I'd love to be corrected on this, but to date it doesn't look like I can find active runways in the US as easy as Canada. I'm well aware this is still not solving the problem, but I find this helpful. If anyone has info on other locations I'm all ears. As someone with a visual impairment it is almost impossible to read a chart. Having text equivalents is incredibly helpful, and that also goes for holding patterns (most often used in Europe). I can get altitude and speed restrictions via text thankfully. 

 

here is what I mean

yeah thats nice, i dont think we have that. however we do have d-atis that is becoming easier to find..  like i said originally its now available in the fslabs airbuses thru the acars in the mcdu which is very handy.

you can also get it through something like aeroweather app for your phone, or the mysterious https://datis.clowd.io/ site (seriously where is this from?)

there also still are phone lines hooked directly into some airports atis's that just play on a loop.. you can find the phone numbers on skyvector or in the chart supplements

other than that you can always just look at something like flightradar24 or flightaware and just look at the ground tracks of the arriving/departing aircraft and figure it out that way, or even just listen to to the atc on https://www.liveatc.net/