Take off from unmanned airport, but area center is online, VFR.

[Stephen Pelly]

When taking off (VFR) from an airport that is unmanned, but the area center is online, should I contact the center for taxi and take off instructions or should I take off VFR and then make contact with the center?

[Filippo Genoni 1533729]

Hi @Stephen Pelly!

VATSIM works on a top-down system in which If you are at an airport which is under an airspace and that airspace in that moment is covered by _CTR, you would contact them for Clearance, Pushback, Taxi, Takeoff…etc (Basically everything). The top-down system also works for all the other stations, the _CTR was just an example.

So in your case you contact the area center and ask for everything!

(If you are unsure if your airport is covered or not by a controller, contact them via private chat: they’ll surely give you an answer :))

 

Hope this can help.

Filippo,

Edited October 16, 2021 at 06:39 PM by Filippo Genoni

[Tobias Dammers]

2 hours ago, Stephen Pelly said:

When taking off (VFR) from an airport that is unmanned, but the area center is online, should I contact the center for taxi and take off instructions or should I take off VFR and then make contact with the center?

It depends.

If it's an untowered airport, and your flight is going to stay outside of controlled airspace, then you don't need to talk to anyone.

If it's an untowered airport, but your flight will pass through controlled airspace, then you need to contact Center (or whoever is responsible for the airspace you will be flying in). You may also want to do this if you're not required to talk to ATC, but want "flight following" (basically, ATC watching you on their scopes and giving your traffic information).

If it's a towered airport, then Center should provide top-down service, and you should talk to them the same way you would normally talk to Delivery, Ground, or Tower.

[Joel Semmel]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the the airport is non-towered then it's probably in G or E airspace and doesn't require contacting  a Center ATC to taxi and depart.  During your VFR flight, if you want to enter or transition thru either B, C, D airspace and Center ATC is the only one online then you should contact them.  (Tobias, thanks for your help as I posted my reply exactly when you did and I believe I said the same thing but differently 🙂 )

Edited October 16, 2021 at 09:30 PM by Joel Semmel

[Christian Kovanen]

1 hour ago, Joel Semmel said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but if the the airport is non-towered then it's probably in G or E airspace and doesn't require contacting  a Center ATC to taxi and depart.  During your VFR flight, if you want to enter or transition thru either B, C, D airspace and Center ATC is the only one online then you should contact them.  (Tobias, thanks for your help as I posted my reply exactly when you did and I believe I said the same thing but differently 🙂 )

Almost, some uncontrolled airports have AFIS (Aerodrome Flight Information Service) where a FISO (Flight information service officer) provides you with flight information service. This usually includes information about weather, traffic and relaying ATC clearances from air traffic control to you. In some places those airports have radio mandatory zones (RMZ) around them. For example, in Finland there are many airports with occasional AFIS service and all of them have a FIZ (Flight Information Zone) around them, inside of which, you must establish two-way radio communication with the FISO (Subject to hours of operation of course). You are required to announce your intentions to the FISO including taxing, taking off etc. The FISO might also be responsible for giving permission for engine startup which might also be mandatory depending on local rules and regulations. On VATSIM the overlying area controller (_CTR) is usually top-down controlling the airport as a FISO.

Edited October 16, 2021 at 10:36 PM by Christian Kovanen

[Joel Semmel]

1 hour ago, Christian Kovanen said:

Almost, some uncontrolled airports have AFIS (Aerodrome Flight Information Service) where a FISO (Flight information service officer) provides you with flight information service. This usually includes information about weather, traffic and relaying ATC clearances from air traffic control to you. In some places those airports have radio mandatory zones (RMZ) around them. For example, in Finland there are many airports with occasional AFIS service and all of them have a FIZ (Flight Information Zone) around them, inside of which, you must establish two-way radio communication with the FISO (Subject to hours of operation of course). You are required to announce your intentions to the FISO including taxing, taking off etc. The FISO might also be responsible for giving permission for engine startup which might also be mandatory depending on local rules and regulations. On VATSIM the overlying area controller (_CTR) is usually top-down controlling the airport as a FISO.

Do you know if AFIS is worldwide?  I've only been studying US charts (there's no F airspace for example).

[Christian Kovanen]

18 minutes ago, Joel Semmel said:

Do you know if AFIS is worldwide?  I've only been studying US charts (there's no F airspace for example).

IIRC US has an equivalent but its rare and voluntary, AFIS is usually mandatory. AFIS is mainly used when an airfield has frequent commercial flights, in the US these airfields usually have class E airspace down to the ground making IFR flight require ATC clearance. Most of the world has set up their airspace differently. Like in the case of Finland airspace below FL95 is uncontrolled class G (outside of airport control zones, terminal areas etc.) that's why they have set up FIZ's around the busy uncontrolled fields.

Edited October 17, 2021 at 12:01 AM by Christian Kovanen

[Adrian Bjerke]

For Norway atleast, you often can look at the frequencies to see what is provided.

For example:

TWR - "Tower"

AFIS - "Information"

 

Not sure if this is noted like this everywhere.

[Joel Semmel]

Yesterday I took off from a part-time tower airport that is in the ARTCC area but the Center controller said he didn't cover it.  I'm thinking the best way to know for sure is msg him/her and ask.

 

[Dustin Rider]

If you're flying in the US, you can check out the Airnav.com page for the airport in question and figure out which ARTCC overlies the airfield. Here's an example from KDSM, which underlies ZAU and ZMP, but technically belongs to the latter. Unfortunately, I think Airnav only covers US airports.

[Luca Melis]

16 hours ago, Joel Semmel said:

Yesterday I took off from a part-time tower airport that is in the ARTCC area but the Center controller said he didn't cover it.  I'm thinking the best way to know for sure is msg him/her and ask.

 

In USAthey use UNICOM 122.8 if there is not way to communicate or the emergency frequency 121.5 MHz

[Tomas Hansson]

5 hours ago, Luca Melis said:

In USAthey use UNICOM 122.8 if there is not way to communicate or the emergency frequency 121.5 MHz

Please do NOT use 121.5 MHz for communication.

From the Code of Conduct:

Quote

A16 - Members shall not carry out private conversations over any communication channels, frequencies, or resources, with the exception of private messages, while connected to the VATSIM Network. The guard VHF radio frequency (121.500) shall not be used.

 

[Robert Shearman Jr]

On 10/26/2021 at 2:47 PM, Joel Semmel said:

Yesterday I took off from a part-time tower airport that is in the ARTCC area but the Center controller said he didn't cover it.  I'm thinking the best way to know for sure is msg him/her and ask.

 

Well, like the posts above state, there are a ton of variables.

• US / non-US
• airport is towered / airport is non-towered / airport is towered but tower is not 24/7
• airport is under TRACON control via top-down, when "up" but unstaffed / airport is not under TRACON and thus inherited by Center when "up" but unstaffed
• your flight is IFR / your flight is VFR

So, to get a clear-cut answer on who you should contact, unfortunately we'd really need to know more about the specifics, lest your conclusion or our advice be incorrect for the next time you do it.  Sorry there isn't a simpler answer, but, I only offer this clarification so you don't get frustrated if you get told different things by different people.  The different answers might all be legit.

[Luca Melis]

On 10/27/2021 at 5:20 PM, Tomas Hansson said:

Please do NOT use 121.5 MHz for communication.

From the Code of Conduct:

 

It is talking about private communication.

 

If communication is related to air-safety, it is not a private communication. It is an aviation communication. Anyway, in doubt do not use 121.5