VFR flights on Vatsim

[Marc Sieffert]

Hi, I normally fly B737 but I am starting now also with Cessna 172 and VFR flights and have a few questions:

1- Do flight plans for VFR flights always have to include a route with departing and arriving airport, SID and STARS, waypoints according to defined routes or can you also say I want to go from A to B and then fly freely from A to B?

2- If you want just to make a round trip, not a circuit but visiting the area... (taking off and landing at same airport) do you also have to fill a route or can you make your trip freely? How do I communicate this to ATC?

3- If you want to do a circuit, what info do you have to provide on the flight plan?

4- Are there always some general altitude and route constraints for VFR flights, in other words to what extend can I fly freely around?

Thanks a lot!!

[Clemens Martin]

Ok, ill try to answer your question, for what we use in the U.S. ARTCC's:

1- VFR flights don't need to have any SID/STAR and route waypoints in it. DIRECT is valid. Some SID/STAR are restricted to RNAV capable turbo jets for example, so its even a bad idea to file a SID/STAR in the skyhawk. You will get direction of flight instruction (or resume own nav) from ATC if online. SID/STAR are IFR only.

2- Make your trip freely. If starting or landing at a controlled airport (B/C/D-Airspace) and ATC is online and covering these airports, get your clearance from them. VATSIM is based on a top down system, that means for example, even if the Delta-Airport Tower controller is not online, but the Center controller for that area, get your clearance from the Center controller. Example would be "Memphis Center, N12345 at KOLV (with ATIS info X, if available for that airport) airport requesting VFR clearance to the Northwest (and possible into the Memphis class Bravo airspace)". If not in B/C/D airspaces (e.g. private uncontrolled airfields), you can takeoff freely without any ATC clearance, though when airborne its always a good idea to request flight following services from the above controller. Also if equipped with a transponder, do us ATC a favor and turn it on on 1200 outside controlled airspaces, so we can "see" you.

3- For closed traffic, just type in "closed traffic patterns" or so into your flightplan route

4- Alt constraints: Below clouds, and at or below 17,500ft MSL. If you fly a steady "route" (e.g. following a river or even waypoints), if above 2000ft AGL, even altitudes MSL + 500ft when flying westbound (e.g. 8500ft), odd altitudes MSL + 500ft when flying eastbound (e.g. 7500ft). For route constraints, well basically you can fly freely, but ATC may tell you something like "remain north of airport XY, at or below 4000ft", if conflicting traffic arises.

These are just some basic guidlines, and i am pretty sure i forgot this and that, but it's just a basic orientation, for whats going on when flying VFR.

Edited November 13, 2021 at 01:16 PM by Clemens Martin
SID/STAR details

[Andreas Fuchs]

1. if you prefer to not pre-determine your route, just fill in "VFR" in the route box. The same is applicable to the altitude/level box of your flightplan: just insert "VFR".
2. best make a comment about this either in your route field (scenic flight) or in the remarks section (RMK/SCENIC FLIGHT).
3. As Clemens wrote, it can even be more brief: "traffic patterns"
4. it all depends on the country that you are flying in! You will need to research VFR airspace rules for each country. In Germany airspace ECHO ends at FL100, above it is CHARLIE and requires clearance from ATC, except when operating in the Alps area, where CHARLIE begins a little bit higher

At VATSIM Germany you can find a number of Pilot Training Manuals and one of them is specific to VFR operations: https://de.wiki.vatsim-germany.org/Piloten_Trainingsdokumente

[Joel Semmel]

2 hours ago, Marc Sieffert said:

4- Are there always some general altitude and route constraints for VFR flights, in other words to what extend can I fly freely around?

 

Check out this video.  It was a BIG help for me:  

 

[John Stockton]

I filed a VFR flight plan. Made it to my destination. ATC is online. Do I close my flight plan with ATC or just log off VATSIM?

[Joel Semmel]

Is "closing" a flight plan such a thing?  I've always just disconnected.

[Dustin Rider]

Opening and closing VFR flight plans (in the US) are done through flight service stations which aren't simulated on VATSIM, so logging off is perfectly fine. 

[Marc Sieffert]

Hi,

Thanks for the clarifications above. Now that I want to start to fly online I have a few more questions for lets say a flight from LFMD to LFTH with an altitude of 4000 ft with the Cessna 172 (Route could be LFMD, STP, LFTH)

1-  My understanding is that I can fly such a flight either as VFR or IFR. Correct?

2- What are the criteria to define if it will be a VFR or an IFR flight?

3- If I select IFR do I necessary need to select a SID and a STAR?

4- Does the usage of Radio Nav or GPS Nav implied that I should classify my flight as IFR or can I still classify it as VFR although I am using these instruments?

5- In other words do VFR flights imply to use only visual recognition and no GPS?

6- Is it OK to start a VFR flight by night or are night flights generally IFR flights?

Thanks a lot!!!

 

[Joel Semmel]

VFR and IFR have rules and guidelines.  Then there's VMC (visual meteorological conditions) and IMC (instrument meteorological conditions) which determine if you can fly VFR or IFR.  VFR should only be flown under VMC.  IFR can be flown in both VMC and IMC.

SID and STAR are designed for commercial jets for the most part (see the altitude and speed restrictions in many.  A Cessna 172 can't meet them for most part).  IMO you would only need to be concerned with flying either a visual or instrument approach.

IFR must always file a flight plan in VATSIM.  Technically VFR does not require one but it's very helpful to ATC to be able to have an idea of where you'll be flying.  I've been given helpful advice here to put "VFR" or "Scenic" in the route and remarks boxes along with departure and arrival airports (can be changed OFC). 

Edited November 17, 2021 at 04:31 PM by Joel Semmel

[Marc Sieffert]

2 hours ago, Joel Semmel said:

SID and STAR are designed for commercial jets for the most part (see the altitude and speed restrictions in many.  A Cessna 172 can't meet them for most part).  IMO you would only need to be concerned with flying either a visual or instrument approach.

Thanks Joel! I thought that ATC Controllers would always expect a SID and STAR for IFR flights which seems not to be the case. So I understand that they do not only look at the type of flight (VFR/IFR) but also at the type of airplane and in case of a Cessna the Controller would not expect a SID or STAR... 

But with a Cessna I am still authorized in case I want it to use the route of a SID or STAR right?

Thanks!

[Joel Semmel]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see major airport ATC assigning you an SID or STAR.  Just imagine Jets having to fly behind a Cessna172...the traffic backups!  They would vector you in and out instead.

Edited November 17, 2021 at 08:17 PM by Joel Semmel

[Marc Sieffert]

19 hours ago, Joel Semmel said:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see major airport ATC assigning you an SID or STAR.  Just imagine Jets having to fly behind a Cessna172...the traffic backups!  They would vector you in and out instead.

But the approach procedures can always  be used with a small plane such as a Cessna (CAT1) right?

[Robert Shearman Jr]

Yes.

And there are some SIDs and STARs meant to be flown by smaller, slower aircraft -- but certainly not as many.  Read the "Notes" on the chart and see whether it specifies turbojet aircraft only.

[Lauri Uusitalo]

16 hours ago, Marc Sieffert said:

But the approach procedures can always  be used with a small plane such as a Cessna (CAT1) right?

But I would expect ATC vectored shortcuts...

[Joshua Jenkins]

On 11/18/2021 at 10:42 AM, Robert Shearman Jr said:

Read the "Notes" on the chart and see whether it specifies turbojet aircraft only.

Or required performance (minimum rate of climb is the most common one) may be a limiting factor, even if light aircraft are theoretically allowed to do it.

Edited November 20, 2021 at 03:02 AM by Josh Jenk

[Michael Ryan 1286383]

On 11/17/2021 at 3:15 PM, Joel Semmel said:

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't see major airport ATC assigning you an SID or STAR. 

Not only can they and will they, but when flying IFR you can fly a SID without ATC assigning one to you. There are two types of departure procedures, or DPs: standard instrument departures (SIDs) and obstacle departure procedures (ODPs). Both provide obstruction clearance, and pilots are encouraged to fly them even when they aren't assigned to you (providing you haven't been given a conflicting instruction, of course). They prevent you from hitting solid objects! And the profile of a 172 and a higher performance aircraft won't be the same if they're flying the same DP, because their climb gradients are different. Besides, ATC will be watching for conflicting traffic. 

You can always fly a DP if you want to, and in fact you're encouraged to do so!

Edited November 27, 2021 at 10:40 PM by Michael Ryan 1286383

[Steve Biddle]

Kind of refreshing that there is someone who is asking about VFR flights on the network, and flying GA. In the last 3 years that I have been flying IFR and VFR, I've noticed the GA VFR/IFR pilots are becoming scarce, less and less. It appears that most are flying the heavy iron. When you file VFR, and if in busy airspace, be prepared to take a back seat to the commercial traffic. The controllers are so overwhelmed at times, it's difficult to get basic flight following. The smokers really take over the network at times. But don't let that intimidate you. Get out there and fly that prop, be patient and follow the rules and have fun!

Cheers!

[Michael Ryan 1286383]

6 hours ago, Steve Biddle said:

Kind of refreshing that there is someone who is asking about VFR flights on the network, and flying GA. In the last 3 years that I have been flying IFR and VFR, I've noticed the GA VFR/IFR pilots are becoming scarce, less and less. It appears that most are flying the heavy iron. When you file VFR, and if in busy airspace, be prepared to take a back seat to the commercial traffic. The controllers are so overwhelmed at times, it's difficult to get basic flight following. The smokers really take over the network at times. But don't let that intimidate you. Get out there and fly that prop, be patient and follow the rules and have fun!

Cheers!

I fly single engine VFR on the network often, and I find it much the same. But I do what I do and enjoy it.