John McMurdo Posted December 20, 2021 at 10:39 PM Posted December 20, 2021 at 10:39 PM So I have been flying on VATSIM for quite a while, and am pretty confident even at busy airports - as long as there is a controller online. On two occations now I have chickened out and disconnected on the approach leg into EGKK (just before WILLOW) because even though there was not that much traffic around (maybe 1 ahead and 3 behind) I was not confident enough to squeeze myself in even communicating my intentions over unicom. Afterwards, I did think I could have probably held at WILLOW at say FL100 to let other traffic on the same approach path pass beneath me, and also wait until there was a quiet spot to land. There was one occasion at EDDM where there was no control on approach either, but I had landed there so many times under the guidance of ATC that I became very confident despite it being fairly busy. I know there is no need for me to disconnect really, but what else can I do? The last thing I want is to cause a headache for other users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filippo Genoni 1533729 Posted December 21, 2021 at 07:52 AM Posted December 21, 2021 at 07:52 AM @John McMurdo Hey! Just remember: Quote If things get complicated, don’t be afraid to disconnect. One day some months ago, I was approach LFPG and LFPG_APP was online. There was some traffic but my problem wasn’t the traffic but at the moment my airac was 1802! So the controller gave my a star, a transition, a altitude and a speed, but I was getting really stressed. Also, to complicate things even more, sometimes I was not understanding what the controller was saying because he was talking really fast and I was still a newbie. So I decided to disconnect and I landed offline. We are here to have fun, no? Some people like doing holdings and fly in trafficated airports, some people, like me, like flying into airports where there is ATC, but not so much traffic. Then when you get more and more experience, you will fly into Gatwick without any problem also on Unicom! Filippo, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMurdo Posted December 21, 2021 at 08:11 PM Author Posted December 21, 2021 at 08:11 PM I think I need to give up on my attempts in to Gatwick, after 3 failures it gets a bit demoralizing, especially when I believed I was getting fairly good on VATSIM. Gatwick can just stay as my main departure airport for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filippo Genoni 1533729 Posted December 21, 2021 at 08:26 PM Posted December 21, 2021 at 08:26 PM 6 minutes ago, John McMurdo said: It gets a bit demoralizing Don't demoralize! It's only about getting experience! 7 minutes ago, John McMurdo said: After 3 failures Why do you think that your arrivals are "failures"? No one is judging you, maybe you are a little too hard on yourself, what do you think you did wrong during your attempts? 14 minutes ago, John McMurdo said: I think I need to give up on my attempts in to Gatwick Don't give up! Continue flying, not only in Gatwick, and the day you will success landing in Gatwick on Unicom in a busy situtation you will be so happy! Filippo, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMurdo Posted December 21, 2021 at 10:50 PM Author Posted December 21, 2021 at 10:50 PM Thanks for the supportive comments. You are probably right about me being hard on myself, and I suppose failure is a bit of a strong word to use, I have to admit I am my own worst critic. As for what I did wrong, well on my latest attempt, as I was flying the down-wind leg of the STAR I had to change runway. Since I was already flying the approach, I just set a course and planned to vector myself in, but another aircraft was close behind me, so I thought I will fly on past and let him land first so I don't get in his way. I know there was probably plenty of distance between us, but lack of confidence got the better of me. I only intended to fly a short distance before turning straight back, but I ended up about 38 miles from Gatwick when tower messaged me asking if everything was OK. I explained what I was doing and why, and shortly after decided it would probably be better to disconnect and attempt to land offline. I think deviating 38 miles from my flight plan is one of the worst things I have done on VATSIM..so far. The other occasions, I just lost my nerve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Dammers Posted December 22, 2021 at 07:55 AM Posted December 22, 2021 at 07:55 AM 8 hours ago, John McMurdo said: As for what I did wrong, well on my latest attempt, as I was flying the down-wind leg of the STAR I had to change runway. Since I was already flying the approach, I just set a course and planned to vector myself in, but another aircraft was close behind me, so I thought I will fly on past and let him land first so I don't get in his way. I know there was probably plenty of distance between us, but lack of confidence got the better of me. I only intended to fly a short distance before turning straight back, but I ended up about 38 miles from Gatwick when tower messaged me asking if everything was OK. I explained what I was doing and why, and shortly after decided it would probably be better to disconnect and attempt to land offline. I think deviating 38 miles from my flight plan is one of the worst things I have done on VATSIM..so far. If that's the worst, then you're doing fantastically. For perspective, I have done all these things on VATSIM (none of them on purpose): Took off from the runway (got an intersection takeoff from mid-runway, turned the wrong way, didn't check heading). Fat-fingered the speedbrake at 7000 ft, crashed into the Ardennes before I could figure out what was going on. Landed at Gatwick without flaps, ended up overrunning the runway, in the middle of a busy event. Failed to notice that the glideslope didn't capture, overflew the airport at 4000 ft - TWICE IN A ROW. Ended up flying an NDB approach, which, to the controller's relief, I actually managed to pull off. The "perfect" thing to do would have been to just continue and let the traffic behind you sort things out - if you're already on the STAR and about to turn final, nobody will expect to cut in front of you. Just land and let them maintain separation, and if they need you to speed up or hold, they will call you. But your decision wasn't wrong either. You found yourself in a situation that you didn't feel comfortable with, and decided to buy yourself some time by giving yourself "delay vectors". That's actually good airmanship - instead of taking a gamble on whether or not you could handle the workload, you played it safe and de-escalated the situation. Nothing to be ashamed of, on the contrary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew McCabe Posted December 22, 2021 at 08:43 AM Posted December 22, 2021 at 08:43 AM Echo what Tobias has said. Sounds like you handled it well. You can also use UNICOM and broadcast your intentions, so in the example you gave, just go on UNICOM and announce something like you are going to hold and fly the approach as number 2 behind "callsign" . That way he / she knows what you are up to and helps them deal with the situation appropriately too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dace Nicmane Posted December 22, 2021 at 12:34 PM Posted December 22, 2021 at 12:34 PM (edited) Don't be afraid to use unicom and work with other pilots. Coordination on unicom can be just as fun as working with ATC. If you're number one, go for the runway and let the other pilot take care of separation. If you let him first and he announces 10 nm final and you're 12 DME, it's completely safe to turn base and there will be plenty of separation. If he doesn't announce it by himself, you can always ask. If he doesn't cooperate, well, his loss and you're not responsible for any incidents. Worst case, if it doesn't work out, you can always go around. Moreover, if there was tower online, he'd see you and hold any departures for you. Maybe it just takes a little more time and effort for you but if you can do it with ATC, you can do it on unicom, too. Good luck for the next time and let us know how it goes! Also there's nothing wrong with flying to quieter airports if you choose so. Edited December 22, 2021 at 01:34 PM by Dace Nicmane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calum Watt Posted December 22, 2021 at 12:37 PM Posted December 22, 2021 at 12:37 PM I'm still quite new to Vatsim, and I landed yesterday at Gatwick on Unicom, and it was quite busy. It was actually fun all the pilots sorting it out amongst ourselves on Unicom. Someone did taxi onto the runway for takeoff when I was about 3 miles from toutchdown though, so I went around. The second time approaching I had decided I would be quite assertive if someone decided they wanted to take off right in front me causing a second go around, but it was fine. Someone took off in good time for me to land, with another waiting at the holding point to take off after I had landed and cleared the runway. There was ground ATC though, and taxiing to the assigned gate, on the assigned route is the hardest thing for me at present at complex airports. I noticed yesterday though my Navigraph airport maps and taxi stands map showing me where my aircraft is, which seems a bit of a cheat, but makes it so much easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts