Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted June 4, 2007 at 01:39 AM Posted June 4, 2007 at 01:39 AM These forums are NOT the place for every real world crash or in-flight emergency to be listed. It is also inflamatory to make a post reading "crash landing" when what occurred was a gear retraction...hardly a crash landing by any stretch of the imagination. Post deleted. DRK Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Littlejohn Posted June 4, 2007 at 02:28 AM Posted June 4, 2007 at 02:28 AM From the looks on FlightAware, it jappened between 2100 - 2200Z. As it landed in the Bay, there may be something of this in the LiveATC archives from NorCal. we may want to see if there's something on it there. BL. Brad Littlejohn ZLA Senior Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted June 4, 2007 at 11:12 AM Author Posted June 4, 2007 at 11:12 AM These forums are NOT the place for every real world crash or in-flight emergency to be listed. It is also inflamatory to make a post reading "crash landing" when what occurred was a gear retraction...hardly a crash landing by any stretch of the imagination. Post deleted. DRK What forum is the place? I decided not to post it in General Dicussion becuase the caption says it's centered around VATSIM and online flight discussion. But the VATSIM forums HAVE, in the past, had several discussions of real world crashes or in-flight emergencies... http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=6259 http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=6407 http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=10607 http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=10404 http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=6483 http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=4756 Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornell Lloyd 952716 Posted June 4, 2007 at 12:30 PM Posted June 4, 2007 at 12:30 PM I'd have to agree with Nick on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted June 4, 2007 at 01:15 PM Posted June 4, 2007 at 01:15 PM ...and what if the Moderators of this forum decided that they do not want to have this kind of "trash-information" and "trash-discussion" anymore? This is what I do read out of this. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klain 874106 Posted June 4, 2007 at 01:28 PM Posted June 4, 2007 at 01:28 PM Here's the issue folks. Where do we draw the line? There are literally several "incidents" every day. The majority end up with minor damage to the aircraft. Some end up with injuries and loss of life. Some are devastating disasters. As pointed out these forums in general and this forum in particular exist to support discussions about VATSIM and the online flight simulation community. In the last few weeks we have seen posts about: - a kidnapped child - bad weather approaching an area and warning people to take cover - a gear collapse (or retraction) on the ground None of these have anything to do with VATSIM or flight simulation. I do not doubt that they are "news"...but there are plenty of places on the internet for discussions about these things or to find out they are happening. Nick B. is right...in the past discussions have been allowed to take place. The problem remains...where do we draw the line? What is an interesting discussion to one person is offensive to others and downright hurtful to others. The same can be said with "memorial flights" or recreation of flights that ended up as tragedies. VATSIM is an international organization with over 100,000 members. It is important for all to remember this is NOT a US-centric or European-centric organization, and we have members who are sensitive to things that others find harmless. Bottom line is that we support and gladly host threads and posts that support the VATSIM or flight simulation community. I can't see how a reasonable person can conclude that a post saying "XXXX jet just crashed/landed and slid off the runway/whatever" meets that criteria.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted June 4, 2007 at 08:28 PM Author Posted June 4, 2007 at 08:28 PM In the last few weeks we have seen posts about: - a kidnapped child - bad weather approaching an area and warning people to take cover - a gear collapse (or retraction) on the ground Well I can see two of those three have NOTHING to do with aviation. But the final one does. What is an interesting discussion to one person is offensive to others and downright hurtful to others. The same can be said with "memorial flights" or recreation of flights that ended up as tragedies. I disagree that this can be compared with "memorial" flights, this is just starting a discussion about an accident relating to civil aviation. The premise that my post could have been interpreted as hurtful or offensive would be ridiculous. You talk about drawing a line...well, the line should be drawn (and already is)...to where the topic hurts, or offends other members, but that certainly was not the case with my post. Nor was it the case in any of my example links I posted, as the moderators let them all continue, and it appears the people who participated in the topic had just as much of an enjoyable time posting as they might have posting elsewhere on the VATSIM forum. Bottom line is that we support and gladly host threads and posts that support the VATSIM or flight simulation community. I can't see how a reasonable person can conclude that a post saying "XXXX jet just crashed/landed and slid off the runway/whatever" meets that criteria.. Maybe not, but then why were my above examples, as well as many others...(just another example: http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=9411), allowed to run their course? My original post might have in fact sparked some insightful discussions about VATSIM or Flight Simualtor. Perhaps the folks at ZOA are interested in simulating this closed runway until the Southwest jet is removed, or someone might ask why on FlightAware the aircraft appears to have circled around the airport several times. Just because the immediate post didn't mention "VATISM" or "FS" in it, shouldn't disqualify it from continuing on in discussion, especially given the topic is aviation related. There are MANY topics on the VATSIM forums that might not directly have to do with VATSIM or Flight Simulator, but given that they have to do with aviation, and are a respectful way to exchange opinions and resources, are still allowed to be on the forums. Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Richey 985064 Posted June 4, 2007 at 10:23 PM Posted June 4, 2007 at 10:23 PM There are literally several "incidents" every day. The majority end up with minor damage to the aircraft. Some end up with injuries and loss of life. If we were to focus on fatal general aviation accidents in the US alone, we would have around ~350 threads like this or so per year (about 500 people die per year in GA crashes). I agree with the mods. Nick, you're beating a dead horse, so drop it. You are not going to win. ZLA Pilot Cert I-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted June 4, 2007 at 10:43 PM Posted June 4, 2007 at 10:43 PM I definetely have to agree with David and Stephen. Nick, don't take it personally! Just accept that the MODs don't seem to be in favour of this kind of threads, that's all. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted June 4, 2007 at 10:56 PM Author Posted June 4, 2007 at 10:56 PM Nick, don't take it personally! Just accept that the MODs don't seem to be in favour of this kind of threads, that's all. It's not fair though, Dave is out to get me! I am only questioning how it was allowed in the past, and not in this case. Dave mentioned a line being drawn, and now I am curious where my post crossed the line. Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Littlejohn Posted June 4, 2007 at 11:03 PM Posted June 4, 2007 at 11:03 PM I definetely have to agree with David and Stephen. Nick, don't take it personally! Just accept that the MODs don't seem to be in favour of this kind of threads, that's all. I think what Nick is ticked off about is that there was no precedent set for this previously, and other (and albeit some were much worse) threads were able to run their course in the past 6 - 7 years that this forum has been around, but now this thread which is rather light compared to others was given the axe for something that was a lot more related to what we can do here than other threads. I can see where Nick is coming from, and if there were to be a precedent set for this, it should have been set a long time ago and not now. BL. Brad Littlejohn ZLA Senior Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davor Kusec 990407 Posted June 5, 2007 at 12:29 AM Posted June 5, 2007 at 12:29 AM I don't think Nick is ticked off but hey, all rules have to start somewhere (If that made any sense) Davor Kusec Air Traffic Director | Northeast Region VATUSA Supervisor | VATSIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted June 5, 2007 at 12:37 AM Posted June 5, 2007 at 12:37 AM past 6 - 7 years that this forum has been around???????? Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Littlejohn Posted June 5, 2007 at 12:39 AM Posted June 5, 2007 at 12:39 AM past 6 - 7 years that this forum has been around???????? Sorry.. was also including the simflight.com/satco/vatsim/ivpa newsgroups. Would be about 3 - 4 years that this forum would have been around.. BL. Brad Littlejohn ZLA Senior Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted June 5, 2007 at 08:51 AM Posted June 5, 2007 at 08:51 AM Hi Brad, the forum exists since the end of 2004, so for about 2,5 years...anyways... Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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