Middle East weekly online day

[Sönke Schweppe]

Dear friends.

 

On the suggestion of a member of Egypt vACC I like to share this idea with you:

 

The situation:

The traffic of the Middle East region is very low at this time. Every vACC have their own (weekly) online day and some of them have no such day. For those who have one is the problem around their vACC it's "dark", so pilots have to fly from Europe to them. That's means a flight time from 2 or more hours. Not every pilot likes to that. So how can we solve this problem?

 

 

The idea:

A coordinated weekly online day for Middle East region: e. g. HECC, LLLL, OLBA, OJAC, OSTT, ORBS, OEJD. (Not complete)

 

Every Friday, 18.00 UTC to 22.00 UTC

Only one airport of the participating vACC is staffed with minimum tower, approach and centre controller.

Next week another airport is staffed inside the vACC

 

 

Why only one airport per vACC?

1.

The Idea is to increase traffic between the countries and become international flights, not domestic flights. Otherwise it could happen that bigger vACC collect the traffic inside their vACC and the other controllers feel bored.

2.

Not every vACC have enough controllers to staff more then one airport. Communities with many members have the advantage to stuff more airports. See my argument above.

 

 

Why every week another airport is staffed inside the vACC?

I think it's much more interesting for the pilots to have different airports online, instead of every week the same with the same routes.

 

 

Why Friday?

Friday is holiday in Middle East region and also the weekend in Europe. Maybe more people have the time to join the weekly event.

 

 

Why 18.00h - 22.00h UTC?

18.00 UTC means 20.00 UTC daylight saving time in Europe, resp. 19.00 MEZ. Also the European community have the chance to join our event and we have the chance of more traffic.

 

 

Why 4 hours online time?

1.

During 4 hours more pilots have the chance to join. Not every pilot is able to start exactly at the beginning.

2.

4 hours is enough time for more the one short distance flight.

3.

Pilots, who are interesting in long distance flights has the chance to do it with ATC.

 

 

Important:

1.

On my opinion it's most important that we are online regularly and completed stuffed when we announce this kind of event.

 

2.

We will be mistaken if we think; we have high traffic from now on. It must grow up to become an effect! It takes time ... a long time.

 

3.

We must practice a good quality ATC in every vACC.

 

 

So, this is my idea. Every point of this idea is free to discuss. So feel free to post here.

 

Regards

Soenke

[Scott Bickford]

I hope you consider other days and hours. I fly from KJFK and usually arrive Saturday 1430 to about 1530 local in HECA.

[Mouin El Khechen 923677]

we have brought up the almost the same idea once. You are right with every point you listed in there.

 

To update you on the status of our vACC:

I would be glad to join; however, I believe my vACC has a few constraints:

Positions: Approach and Center:

Center: currently there are only two people certified for center (me and Alex). I haven't been in touch with Alex lately so i am not aware if he is able to take that position. As for me, few of you know my current situation (for the time being, i'm graduating and preparing to travel to germany in two months); Therefore, I can still do the minimal tasks required, yet i can not engage in scheduled events. (most probably after i reach germany I will be much more active again).

Approach: I have three controllers to be certified for Approach, latest by next week. So i see no problem there, however, since the lebanese airspace is small, i believe Approach can replace Center's task for controlling the airspace, except for overflights. This would resolve the first problem if CTR is not available.

 

4 hours duration:

*This is the official working hours per day for controllers at OLBA in real life, I like it*; It is an affordable duration however, I am not sure whether controllers are willing to spend that much every friday. If a vACC has many controllers, then it can allocate different controllers every friday (which should not be a problem in this case) but what if a vACC had an insufficient number of controllers? Then I recommend that controllers have to be online at leats 2 hours during th eoriginal 4 hours.

 

Your idea is a great one, yet i just wanted to point out at some constraints that a few vACCs may face (like Lebanon; for the time being).

 

regards,

 

Mouin

Director of Lebanese vACC

 

please feel free to contact me at mkhechen (at) gmail.com

[Sönke Schweppe]

Center: currently there are only two people certified for center (me and Alex). I haven't been in touch with Alex lately so i am not aware if he is able to take that position. As for me, few of you know my current situation (for the time being, i'm graduating and preparing to travel to germany in two months); Therefore, I can still do the minimal tasks required, yet i can not engage in scheduled events. (most probably after i reach germany I will be much more active again).

Maybe you can work with guest controllers?

 

Approach: I have three controllers to be certified for Approach, latest by next week. So i see no problem there, however, since the lebanese airspace is small, i believe Approach can replace Center's task for controlling the airspace, except for overflights. This would resolve the first problem if CTR is not available.

I think an approach qualified controller can also controlled on tower, ground and preflight position

4 hours duration:

*This is the official working hours per day for controllers at OLBA in real life, I like it*; It is an affordable duration however, I am not sure whether controllers are willing to spend that much every friday. If a vACC has many controllers, then it can allocate different controllers every friday (which should not be a problem in this case) but what if a vACC had an insufficient number of controllers? Then I recommend that controllers have to be online at leats 2 hours during th eoriginal 4 hours.

 

Ok, maybe you feel 4 hours as a long time. But we need a minimum online time to become traffic. 2 hours online does not work.

Edited July 23, 2007 at 06:54 PM by Guest

[Sönke Schweppe]

I hope you consider other days and hours. I fly from KJFK and usually arrive Saturday 1430 to about 1530 local in HECA.

 

When we agree on Saturday, then it's ok. But we are small communites and we have not so many controllers to be online on different days Saturday is a normal day for working in the Middle East region.

Edited July 23, 2007 at 06:55 PM by Guest

[Ebrahim Kooheji 984076]

Mahmood Fadli... i think you should comment on this...

 

And Ilan i believe you saw my msg....

So maybe u know OBBB_CTR or something

 

Ebra

[Navid Hamzeloo 938184]

Hi

It is indeed a great Idea.

In Iran-Vacc we currently have 2 Controllers, Both Certified for CTR, Mr Tavafian Usually takes over OIIX_CTR and I take Over OIII_APP.

Iran_VACC Online day is on Thursdays, 2200 UTC is 1:30 AM in Iran and it will be hard to get up in the morning to go to Work.

Thats Why We have chosen Thursdays so both controllers and Pilots can be online till late.

 

Thanks

 

Navid Hamzeloo

www.iran-vacc.org

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

I remember speaking with Egypt vACC and VATLEB about this very same idea six months ago, and had even tried to email the directors and coordinators of both vACCs and didn't get far. Their emails with the vACC domains weren't working. We were thinking of having a few hours where we'd bring the whole region online and keep ATC alive for a few hours. The way it would work is that you'd have every major airport(s) in the Middle East open to all traffic for 4 to 6 hours. All Centers would be online and vACCs would arrange a guest controller program to make sure all airports are staffed. Then you'd a "tour of Arabia" type thing where a flight would leave HECA and arrive at OJAI, then visit OEJN, OYAA, OOMS, OMDB etc. etc. all with full ATC.

 

This was the idea but sadly it's been very difficult to get into contact with a lot of the vACC directors. It was part of a greater idea that I had to build an Arab Flight Simulation Community Website where everything would be better organized and forums were available that would make people easy to reach.

 

Either way, VATJO tried this and perhaps you'll have more success than we had (not to say we gave up!). Whatever [Mod - Happy Thoughts]istance you need, VATJO is here. directoratvatjodotnet.

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

Just a couple of comments. There are a lot of controllers who would gladly work with any Arab vACC. The problem is that very few people actually we know exist. Some of these issues aren't problems inherent to VATAME, but simply a result of poor advertising for both the region and the vACC.

 

Much of our situation centers on a lack of coordination and organization both within and between vACCs, and this is mainly because a lot of our vACCs are new to the show. VATJO, Egypt vACC, VATLEB, Emirates vACC, etc., are all very new, and you all know how it is when something is new; it's a mess that's slowly being organized. It's a learning process.

 

I propose that we get together with all the vACC Heads and have a meeting on MSN to discuss this. I tried organizing this a while ago but as I said, emails were not working and I had no other way of contacting anyone. But if you're willing, the first step would be to organize a meeting between all vACC directors and having a 'heart to heart,' getting all ideas, inputs, points of views and concerns on the table before planning an event of this magnitude.

 

Let me know how this sounds.

[Svetlin Nikolov]

Hello to all:)

i would lile to present my idea to make thsi region msore popular for pilots!

 

The idea is real ops event, but not cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ic real ops event.

example.

DAY: FRIDAY NIGHT

TIME:17 UTC to late night (or that will depends of you guys) like i know during the night in middle east rgion have a lot of flights..jsut use them guys!

Every Friday real ops will be on the different airport from different country in the region and other VACCs will sipport the event with cotrolers. Like that you could help each other with CTR APP TWR GRN and DEL..full stuff

 

Like that pilot will know every friday will have full stuff in Middle region and they will prefer to fly there!

 

I hope i could help you guys, I wish you good look!

 

Regard!

[Sönke Schweppe]

@ Mahmoud Fadli

Hello Mahmoud

thanks for your replay. Non working email addresses is a big problem. I know this, too You can believe me I never receive an email from you.

 

The meeting on msn or Teamspeak (Egypt vACC have one) is a good idea. First I like too see how many peolple resp. vACC are interesting.

 

@ Navid Hamzeloo

Of course this a problem we have and we must find an answer for this. We have different time zones. If we like to have traffic from Europe, we must find a compromise.

 

@ Svetlin Nikolov

As I explain on msn: The intention is to bring the region online first. A realops is interesting, yes of course, but this somezhing we do later.

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

You can rest [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ured that VATJO is 100% ready to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ist in any and every way we can.

[Sönke Schweppe]

@ Mahmoud Fadli

Thanks.

Now let's see what the other vACC think about. I like to alight the east region on one day per week or one day every two weeks.

[Ahmed Hasan 958620]

Dear friends.

 

On the suggestion of a member of Egypt vACC I like to share this idea with you:

 

Thanks Soenke For sending my idea ...And i am really Very happy that VACC Directors are interested about it

[Svetlin Nikolov]

Hello all again,

yes you told me mate and ok:)

what ever i`ll support you guys, because i like to fly in Middle east region:D

 

Best regards!

[Navid Hamzeloo 938184]

A meeting on MSN or Teamspeak is a great Idea.

Cheers

 

Navid Hamzeloo

www.iran-vacc.org

[Sönke Schweppe]

Ok I see this vACC are interesting:

Jordan vACC

Egypt vACC

Iran vACC

Lebanese vACC

Israel vACC

Emirates vACC

Did I forgot someone?

 

I miss

Saudi Arabia

Cyprus

Edited July 27, 2007 at 05:28 PM by Guest

[Navid Hamzeloo 938184]

Maybe Emirates Vacc too.

I think John will be interested too.

 

Take care

 

Navid Hamzeloo

www.iran-vacc.org

[Barak Pecht 850077]

Shalom,

 

Let me [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ure you that VATIL like always, are more than happy to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ist VACC's around us, exactly like we did last Saturday with VATJO.

 

Mr. Schweppe, I can't guarantee that every Friday I'll be able to get 3-5 ATC's, considering we have our weekly event usually on Saturday's night.

Moreover, here in Israel Friday is a popular one for going out etc..

 

As for the duration (4 hours), i think it's too much for the beginning, maybe you sould start with 2 hours and m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ive advertisment prior to the event itself.

Then, when you'll have enough attendance, the duration could, and should grow.

 

Some countries need a good scenery or attractive websites. that's a good way to get many pilots on a short term.

Today, an airport without a nice (at least) scenery can't do the job for the "spoiled" pilots.

 

Bottom line, if you decide at the end of the day to try this, VATIL will do the maximum to help you.

 

BTW, for those who didn't see our REAL OPS event website yet:

http://www.vatil.org/vatil/RealOps/

 

Best Regards.

[Sönke Schweppe]

Hello,

thanks for your replay.

 

As for the duration (4 hours), i think it's too much for the beginning, maybe you sould start with 2 hours and m[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ive advertisment prior to the event itself.

 

Ok maybe 4 hours are too long. But I think 2 are too less. 3 hours are the minimum. Let's have a look: Within 2 hours a pilot can only make 1 flight between 2 airports. With startpreparation he needs for a 60 min flight ca. 90 min. Within the last 30 min he can't do another flight.

 

3 horus he can do 2 flights an more controllers will have the fun

 

 

 

Some countries need a good scenery or attractive websites. that's a good way to get many pilots on a short term.

Today, an airport without a nice (at least) scenery can't do the job for the "spoiled" pilots.

Yes this is the biggest problem most of us have

 

Let me also explain one point of my idea:

I think it's important for this kind of event to have only one airport per vACC staffed to become traffic between the event partners. Otherwise it could be happen, that there are domestic flights and no international flights.

And the basic idea of is to become flights between the partners. Maybe later in the year more airports in one vACC could be staffed...

 

vACC with a lot of controllers can help other vACC with guest controllers

cu

Soenke

[Mahmoud Fadli 819693]

vACC with a lot of controllers can help other vACC with guest controllers

 

That's exactly what I suggested; the bigger vACCs should coordinate with the smaller ones and send over some of their reserve or 'non-working' members to the other airports where it's needed.

[John Jones 972609]

Hi Guys,

 

Yes Navid, of course I am interested. Anything that will increase traffic in AME is OK by me.

 

Myself and my Marketing Co-ordinator are currently looking at introducing a "New to Vatsim" Pilots night to give people who are nervous about joining vatsim on line. More to follow when we set it all up.

 

In respect of the weekly event, I have my own Teamspeak server which we can use for a meeting of the VACC's directors to discuss it. Let me know when the meeting is to be planned and I will post the IP address on this forum.

 

John Jones

Director of Emirates Vacc (www.emirates-vacc.org

[Sönke Schweppe]

Summery of discussion:

 

vACC are like to join:

Jordan vACC

Egypt vACC

Iran vACC

Lebanese vACC

Israel vACC

Emirates vACC

 

online day:

Thursday

Friday

 

frequency

weekly

 

start / end time in UTC

???

 

duration of online time:

2 hours

3 hours

 

guest controllers

larger communities help the other vACC with guest controller

 

number of airports to be staffed during the event:

1 per vACC

more then one

 

 

I hope the summery is correct and it will help to follow the discussion.

Now I try to send an email to Cyprus and Saudi Arabia vACC to ask them to join. What about Syria?

[Ebrahim Kooheji 984076]

no offense or something

wat happened to gulf_fss

 

 

and for the saudi and bahrain (with qatar) well we just setted up our site

www.vatsab.net and we agree on this event but duno about the timing

 

and im not ready to control ctr

but i think my collegue can take jeddah fir, but i can take bahrain approach after 50 hrs in beirut

 

Cheers

[Ilan Jonas 860311]

I hope Cyprus will be able to help, even though they belong to VATEUR and not to VATAME. We would like anyways to have people flying within the Mid East and not just Europe-Mid East, so it's fine anyways.

Barak said Wisely, scenery will attract pilot so I hope we are on the right track with ASDT

 

Ilan