Heathrow Real Operations event. 6 Hours or 24 hours.

[Robbie Garrett]

As im real good at organizing these thing's i would like to organize this event with the help of Vatsim-UK

 

Hopefully i can do this and put on Vatsim's biggest event.

 

12 Air Traffic controllers needed for this Special event.

All i need is somewere to get permission so i can get these Air Traffic controllers.

Also we could have ATC from the whole world that will understand the busy london area.

 

6 Hours is a lot of time and is 1/4 of a day and as it would be fair to put this in the evening, and event like this would need lot's of planing and i think there is enougth ATC on vatsim to do UK real Operations, and no kidding.

 

That is 360 A/c Inbound and outbound each way that makes enougth space for and what i have as expected everyone would connect at the same time and crash the server or even worse cause a pile up on each gate or spawn on the runway.

 

As i expect that this could happen 50/50 so i have a real big idea is that to have pre-booked slot's there is plenty enougth slot's to go around.

 

A pre-booking system for each slot and if there is not enougth slot's there could be an alternate for tha a/c to go from EGKK or any other Airport Provided by London Control.

 

So i will create lots of stuff that will show what is going to happen all i need is help on were to start and of course to get the atc for this event.

 

Maybe we could have 24 controllers sharing 3 hours shifts or more so it's easy and fair on everyone that want's to fly on this event.

 

Just say the worst happened BAW2345 want's to depart at 17:18 but his slot is 16:15 then that a/c can depart as long as ATC find's him or her a slot.

 

I will create Information for pilot's and atc on how to create a stream of traffic for 6 hours of flight inbound and outbound.

 

Heathrow is the world's busiest International Airport and also the busiest on Vatsim aswell, and that an aircraft take-off and land's every 20 second's or so and that is a big procedure for everyone to manage it has been talked about on vatsim as said and let't forget talking as LETS DO THIS FOR ONCE AND ALL.

 

EGLL_G_GATE Heathrow Gate Choice 120.200 ( this is so that everyone does not park on everyone this is controlled by someone that will give each a/c a gate for there airline and plane in the real-world position.

EGLL_N_APP Heathrow Director 119.720

EGLL_F_APP Heathrow Director 120.400

EGLL_S_APP Heathrow Director 134.970

EGLL_D_TWR Heathrow Tower 118.500

EGLL_A_TWR Heathrow Tower 118.700

EGLL_N_GND Heathrow Ground 121.900

EGLL_S_GND Heathrow Ground 121.700

EGLL_DEL Heathrow Delivery 121.970

LON_SE_CTR 120.520

LON_SW_CTR 134.120

LON_NW_CTR 119.770

LON_NE_CTR 118.820

 

I want this everyone will want this 6 hours of Pure EGLL and London Airspace Real Operation's i have a plan that will make this the smoothest ever i have been studying this and this could be the world's biggest online event.

If you support this idea and want this to happen then Please put your name and what you think of this event as this could help you see this event happening of or due course to the vatsim-uk and vatsim.

Edited September 12, 2007 at 06:25 PM by Guest

[Robbie Garrett]

I will make this possible and as all i need is the support let's not wait anymore and if there is enougth Air traffic Controllers a real big day say 24-hours and also that we have night tim restricitons and that maybe we could have ATC from the whole world that can control this amount and the big risky job's done by Pro Controllers that will not crack and cause the biggest Mid-air Smash up event in the world on Vatsim.

 

This is possible guy's and maybe i can create a pre-booking system were you can book your place in this event and that any-one that has missed out WILL be able to fly into any of the Other Surounding Airport's.

 

NOW Serious I will Make this Possible Trust me Please.

[Paul O'Donnell 969350]

Hello Robbie.

 

I suggest you join the Vatsim-UK forum, as most of this kind of talk is discussed there as the majority of UK controllers don't browse here too often. You might want to post this in the Capital RTS section, as any event held at Heathrow will have to be approved (as far as I know) by Capital RTS and Vatsim-UK.

 

http://www.vatsim-uk.org/forum

 

All the best.

[Tim Krajcar]

Glad to hear your question of yesterday ('where do I get sector files?') has been answered. Maybe you might want to actually, you know, become a UK ATC first before attempting to organize an event for them?

 

Also:

Heathrow is the world's busiest International Airport

 

Not true, KATL Atlanta Hartsfield has the most p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]engers carried AND the most operations.

 

and also the busiest on Vatsim aswell

 

Also not true, from 8/29/07-present KLAX has had 1134 operations, KATL 895 operations, and EGLL 820.

[Glen Watson 929030]

Hi Robbie,

Please can you drop me an email with your event plans for this to events[at]vatsim-uk.co.uk

 

Cheers.

[Robbie Garrett]

Yes can i use my Msn it's more easy for me and i have got a list that can make it as smooth as possible as i really want to help organise this event so that we can just at least have a real operation's event at least once on vatsim or maybe more.

 

I have developed a smooth system so that it can help the users.

[David Saunders 818672]

Robbie, as much as I dont want to dampen you enthusiasm, the issue is not about pilots, they would come, the issue is the controllers, I dont think you realise the workload that the controllers would be under covering this event, this inst just a matter of just manning Heathrow, effectively with shifts but also every other London airport with controllers to support the Center controllers, with the traffic levels that you want, 1 hour shift is more like the amount of time you could control efficiently.

[Adam Walker]

if your talking a real ops with real traffic levels it may end up less than an hour, Many of the real world controllers only work 15 mintues at a time due to the,m having to concentrate that much. Yes we dont have to worry about crashing planes and killing people, but it isnt an asy thing to do!

[Robbie Garrett]

When i mean real-operation's i do not mean they have to follow read world timetable.

 

Also like to state that i would create a timetable and you must pre-book a time slot for your departure and arrival and book your gate number all maths though so it is as smooth as possible, i mean it's possible im most certain some controllers sit on here getting bored for 4 hours doing nothing.

 

This is why i have come up with an idea that there are shift changes and also that anyone from around the world can operate the Heathrow Areas but Not the stacks or London control unless they have got training for that area.

 

It should work they way i would plan it.

 

As London is the world's busiest airspace, or one of DO NOT Quote me

 

It's easy realy the thing is EGLL starts at 7:30 and mostly stops at 11:30 that make's it

 

Shift 1: 7:30 to 11:30

Shift 2: 11:30 to 15:30

Shift 3: 15:30 to 19:30

Shift 4: 19:30 to 23:30

or you can make it into 3 hours shifts or 2 if you have enougth men to do it.

 

Come on i mean if you can control the amount that enter the airspace then it's not as hard as you think.

 

I should know as i live under EGLL Flightpath and i have been in the nats center and at 12:30 in the day one of the busiest airspace in the world there i was watching the aircraft and watching the screens and they controller enjoyed it so much it was so great to see someone enjoy themselves.

 

This is a chance to prove to vatsim that Vatsim-uk can put on a master size event and bring together the whole vatsim world.

 

I mean as i have just stated that i want to help out with the Capital FIR/RTS and i was thinking that is it illegal for a french or a spanish or a african or a American to help do this atc.

I should so much think this is possible.

I hope im not wrong.

 

I can just imagine if there is special restriction's put in place and if anyone is doing surounding airport's and someone falls out they will automatically be put into the event if they can control tower,ground,approach and departure.

 

Slot time's: Landing slots or Airport slots are rights allocated to an airline by an airport or government agency granting an airline the right to schedule a landing or departure at a specific time. Landing slots at some major airports are controlled by grandfather rights for airlines that were in place when these restrictions were added, for example: British Airways at Heathrow Airport.

 

Now the plan to do with the ton's of traffic if there is not a slot go to the other airport's in the united kingdom as they will not have a slot only EGLL and if you do not have a slot allocated for EGLL you cannot go to this airport or depart from it or go near it at there is plenty of slot's you can expect a slot as this would be fully advertised and there is like a slot every minute for arrival and departure as you can expect in real life there is always delays as you can expect at a event of this scale that is very much possible.

For the one's who could not make it and to make it fair pilot who pre-book a slot and do not come to confirm 2hrs 10 before there departure or on the day will be give to an unlucky one.

 

As i said by real-operations i mean real atc stations filled and also i did not mean follow real timetables and exact airlines.

 

Also the Landing runway will be only used for jet's all other small aircraft will use the take-off runway- just to keep the flow going.

 

It would be real good and i will do anything guys to get this working as smooth as.

[Tim Krajcar]

Robbie,

Try the MS Gaming Zone. I think it is more what you are looking for than VATSIM. Hope you find what you're looking for.

[Robbie Garrett]

Robbie,

Try the MS Gaming Zone. I think it is more what you are looking for than VATSIM. Hope you find what you're looking for.

 

 

Now what is that stupid awnser for, you telling me basically to get lost and leave vatsim and that im not welcome.

[Luke Harvest 929620]

Robbie,

Try the MS Gaming Zone. I think it is more what you are looking for than VATSIM. Hope you find what you're looking for.

 

 

Now what is that stupid awnser for, you telling me basically to get lost and leave vatsim and that im not welcome.

 

No he's telling you that what you want out of VATSIM, would be more suited MS Gaming Zone. To be honest, I agree. VATSIM is far too established for people to just join and then come up with ideas that's already been discussed or done. You'd get a better reception from the MS Gaming Zone.

[Paul O'Donnell 969350]

It was a rather rude response. Although I would recommend you to sit back a little while and see what has been done and being done in VATUK and VATSIM.

Join the VATSIM-UK forum, and have a read there. Seriously there is alot of information about old events. Controller/Pilot thoughts about Heathrow, why people don't like to fly/control there.

 

Most of the ideas you have are already in place. There's a heathrow event coming up in the next few weeks. You might want to observe that and see just how tricky and complicated things can get at heathrow on VATSIM, and that event will be the staff controlling.

 

Take a break from your plan for the time being. Read some of the old posts regarding heathrow, Vatsim-UK etc.

 

Your enthusiasm is great, but I think you are maybe rushing into things a little too early. Take a back seat for the time being and get your bearings about VATSIM, how things run etc.

 

All the best.

[Robbie Garrett]

Can i ask how many Air traffic controllers that come on vatsim?

 

Just wondered and im thinking if there is special restrictions e.g like airspace slots and Airport slot's then this could easy and able to be managed, im just wondering that why is so many people against something like this is it because it could draw to much attention.

 

I understand that it could be very busy but that is what we want, for all my knowledge that vatsim is growing at a ver large rate and there is at least a possible chance that as the flight sim hobby expand in the not to far see able future real operations daily on vatsim.

 

I mean it's like 6 years since vatsim has started and already there is over 150,000 members not to far there will be a million users in 10-15 years or so.

 

Im not going to fast or far but has there been something this cool or similar to what im talking about i mean Air traffic control do get bored of NOT handling all that traffic and i mean possibly the whole vatsim network will try and get a place in this event, and in the end we could probaly have 2hours shifts per ATC controller there is enougth to control the whole UK aispace for a day the amount that is online per day, in the hours that are active at EGLL.

 

Air traffic controlers for the world let alone the whole vatsim atc community would do this and i could imagine if it does draw so much attention that we could get placements at gatwick and other surouding ariport's.

 

Im not here to come and Boss everyone, what im not doing im just trying to do the possible not the dreams of tons of people and the amount of preperation that will go into this.

 

I just wonder that this is possible for everyone and do you think that everyone will have a smile at the end of this not stress i mean come on how real can you get on here, you want to be 100% real YES OR No.

 

Know let's think of the Positives of this Idea i mean this has enspired me to create a site for Capital RTS.

 

As is said there has to be limits and that mean's airspace limits and Slot's so that it keep's the traffic level down and there wont be traffic for 16 hours i mean as the day grows on the aispace will be like a ghost town for the last 4 hours and all i want to do is create a atmosphere that is as real as it gets.

Edited September 13, 2007 at 06:05 PM by Guest

[Ivan Kovacevic 920456]

Can i ask how many Air traffic controllers that come on vatsim?

 

Just wondered and im thinking if there is special restrictions e.g like airspace slots and Airport slot's then this could easy and able to be managed, im just wondering that why is so many people against something like this is it because it could draw to much attention.

 

Nobody is against it. You are inventing the hexagonal wheel here, while we all have been riding on perfectly round wheels for years. Everything you have said has already been done or is being already done by someone else!

[Robbie Garrett]

Can i ask how many Air traffic controllers that come on vatsim?

 

Just wondered and im thinking if there is special restrictions e.g like airspace slots and Airport slot's then this could easy and able to be managed, im just wondering that why is so many people against something like this is it because it could draw to much attention.

 

Nobody is against it. You are inventing the hexagonal wheel here, while we all have been riding on perfectly round wheels for years. Everything you have said has already been done or is being already done by someone else!

 

If we could get the air traffic control for this event would you fly or control it?

 

Would you enjoy this event?

 

Will you get bored of it?

 

Will you take tons of screenshots?

[Michael Reilly 886102]

Hi Robbie,

 

I dont think you seem to understand exactly how VATSIM operates.

 

The network consists of different Regions and Divisions, all of which have their own organisational 'tree'. In the case of Heathrow, it is managed by VATSIM-UK. Aspiring controllers can only choose one division, and they must be trained specifically in that division, and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] exams etc before they can control. To my knowledge - and Im not a VATUK member - Heathrow has a restriction on ATCs controlling and they must hold a certain rating before being able to control there. Therefore, your idea that there are plenty of controllers available is not true. Similarily, you cannot draft in ATCs from around the world to control a position theyve received no training on.

 

On top of that, each Divison has their own Events Co-ordinator.. these are the people who organise online events to encourage pilots to fly to their region. You are trying to organise an event with no VATSIM ATC experience at one of the network's busiest airport.. while ambitious, it is just not possible Im afraid.

 

Organising an event is also a lot more complicated than you think.. its not as easy as organising shifts, because at the end of the day, all VATSIM members are living a normal life, and are not always available.

 

Ultimately, I think you should take the advice from this thread just to observe the upcoming EGLL event, and it should give you a better insight into how difficult it can be to organise a VATSIM event.

 

Cheers,

 

Daryl

VATSIM Supervisor

[Robbie Garrett]

So that would mean a vatsim member of vatsim usa for example would need to complete a training course for that airport.

 

I also if in the end this event goes ahead ( I hope it does one way or another) I if i was a Contoller for the London area an EGLL i would also do atc for that area and also help anyone who want's to ATC this event, i understand that it's just to much bother and say on person does not turn up i would help this event go as (if it did happend) planned and would step in if someone could not do that posistion.

 

I mean could i like make a vote in the general discussion forum and see what users think of something this big?

 

E.g like would they atc this event and what time.

 

Also there will be back up Controllers so if one falls out there could be 3 back up controllers or 2.

Depend's im not any sort of authority and have fourth knowledge of how the real-world works and that this is very much possible due to the scale of the event.

 

i have worked out how many controllers possibily needed for such an event.

 

EGLL_N_APP Heathrow Director 119.720

EGLL_F_APP Heathrow Director 120.400

EGLL_S_APP Heathrow Director 134.970

EGLL_D_TWR Heathrow Tower 118.500

EGLL_A_TWR Heathrow Tower 118.700

EGLL_N_GND Heathrow Ground 121.900

EGLL_S_GND Heathrow Ground 121.700

EGLL_DEL Heathrow Delivery 121.970

LON_SE_CTR 120.520

LON_SW_CTR 134.120

LON_NW_CTR 119.770

LON_NE_CTR 118.820

 

In total 48 controlers needed that is a lot but i think if we can get enougth people to it then maybe this is possible maybe not.

 

Now im going to ask if i can make a vote in general topic/ Or anyone possible that gets tons of veiws.

 

Topic: Would you control Heathrow Real Ops Event?

Let me see how many people would want to do it from the whole world.

Edited September 13, 2007 at 06:31 PM by Guest

[Tim Krajcar]

(edit: Beaten to the punch in fine style by Daryl's post. Listen to him.)

 

If we could get the air traffic control for this event would you fly or control it?

 

I wouldn't control it because I am not at all familiar with UK ATC procedures, which are in some areas vastly different than the US.

 

Would you enjoy this event?

 

If put on by VATSIM-UK trained & certified controllers, yes. If put on by, as you are suggesting, any random ATC trying to learn UK procedures overnight to staff for one event, absolutely not.

 

And that's certainly nothing against VATSIM-UK. From what little I've seen they have an extremely competent & professional operation. I fly outside of the US/Canada extremely rarely but am planning an EGGW-LDZA flight soon... was logged on observing at EGGW, started chatting with their ATC, etc. It was a very illustrative & interesting hour well spent.

 

Lastly, may I make one more suggestion, though it'll likely be decried as being "rude" as like my last one, which was genuinely well-intentioned and what, I suspect, a large majority of the readers of this thread were thinking.

 

I am amazed that you are coming up with all of these ideas and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ion but have not managed to become validated on a single UK ATC position, according to the VATSIM-UK website roster. Why don't you pour your seemingly unlimited & dogged energy into actually becoming an ATC before trying to organize events for them? I've been an events director before, it is not anywhere near as easy as it looks. There's one heck of a lot more to it than just paying for a domain name and making charts, and a large part of it (ATC coordination procedures) you are currently completely unqualified to do!

 

I am sure that if you were making this post as a VATSIM-UK member with several facility certifications in the Heathrow area (sorry, not precisely sure how UK ATC certs work) you would receive a much better and more favorable reception.

[Michael Reilly 886102]

Its slightly more complicated actually... if a member who was not a member of VATSIM UK wanted to control in the UK, they could apply for either:

 

1) Visiting Rights - this is where teh ATC remains a controller at their original division, but (once accepted by VATUK) are allowed control in the UK between different time periods after training on the position has been completed. And Training isnt done quickly, it can take days/weeks etc. On top of that, new controllers/visiting controllers to my knowledge will never be able to control a large international airport straight away.. they must learn and build their skills at quieter airports aroudn teh country (Im sure a VATUK staff member can confirm whether Im right in [Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that or not?). There is alot of work required if someone wants to control somewhere else than their home division.

 

 

2) Division Change - this is where the member completely leaves their home division for the new division.. joining a new division they will have to undergo the same training/exams etc as any brand new controller would starting out in the division.

 

I hope that clears things up..

[Daniel Doorgakant]

I if i was a Contoller for the London area an EGLL i would also do atc for that area and also help anyone who want's to ATC this event,

 

If you mean LACC (London Area Control Centre) as London Area, you're looking at 1-2 years of training. And thats starting off on London City Tower.

 

In total 48 controlers needed that is a lot but i think if we can get enougth people to it then maybe this is possible maybe not.

 

Impossible

 

 

VATSIM-UK have their Highly experienced Controllers and Staff members, And they can pull off a good, well planned event. The most experienced ones that are on LACC now have been there since SATCO, and not for 4 days .

 

I should know as i live under EGLL Flightpath and i have been in the nats center and at 12:30 in the day one of the busiest airspace in the world there i was watching the aircraft and watching the screens and they controller enjoyed it so much it was so great to see someone enjoy themselves.

 

I live under the 27L Localiser, but it doesnt give me extensive knowledge of Heathrow, as for the NATS Centre, A VATSIM-UK Member is a real world ATCO doing "London Control"

 

 

To back up what Daryl has said, Training is a long process, and even after I had experience on a busy Centre position in Ireland, I was bricking it later on in the year when I done EGLL_TWR