Steven Perry Posted May 19, 2008 at 12:17 PM Posted May 19, 2008 at 12:17 PM (edited) Effective today (19 May 2008) ATC is now required to issue detailed taxi instructions to all aircraft in the USA. http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/at_notices/media/N7110.482.pdf This does appear (or will appear) in FAAO7110.65S Change 2. Edited May 23, 2008 at 11:35 AM by Guest Steven Perry VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Shank Van Eenige 9979 Posted May 19, 2008 at 01:01 PM Posted May 19, 2008 at 01:01 PM Effective May 19!? This is the way I've always done it... Although I think this might be an amendment... I've never seen "TAXI WITHOUT DELAY" before. Eric Shank Van Eenige Real-World Private Pilot vZAU Enroute Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Perry Posted May 19, 2008 at 04:57 PM Author Posted May 19, 2008 at 04:57 PM Effective May 19!? This is the way I've always done it... Although I think this might be an amendment... I've never seen "TAXI WITHOUT DELAY" before. Nothing wrong with having done it this way in the past, but not it is a "shall" (mandatory) item. You were just ahead of the curve. "Without delay" is not new with this GENOT. It's been around for as long as I can remember. Maybe a swivel-head can fill us in on when it came into existence and if "expedite" is a disallowed term for ground movement instructions. Steven Perry VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted May 19, 2008 at 10:21 PM Posted May 19, 2008 at 10:21 PM My understanding is that these changes are all relevant to the Comair accident at Lexington, Kentucky a few years back. This becomes more of a noticed change by small towered airports with only one runway as the local controllers typically give the instruction "taxi to runway XX" without taxiways because, well, nobody could possibly screw that up with one active runway on the field, and only one route to get to it, right? Not the case with Lexington as they obviously have more than one runway, however the construction going on at the airport during the time of the incident on the taxiways near the runway the flight departed from (and crashed shortly thereafter) were quite confusing, from my understanding and the instructions issues were not all that clear (granted this accident wasn't entirely the fault of the controller - at least don't believe it was - maybe someone has a copy of the NTSB case to prove otherwise - please send to me off the forums if you do!). All of these factors contributed... I won't dive any further into it than that... point being these changes are fallout from the accident, and the impact will be primarily noticed at smaller, single runway, airports where specific taxi instructions are not normally issued. -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted May 20, 2008 at 12:22 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 12:22 AM Does an EXACT route for the entire portion of the taxi need to be included in the instruction? For example, at Seattle we have a primary north/south taxiway, taxiway Bravo, and technically aircraft taxiing to 16L would taxi north on Bravo, and then turn left on taxiway Charlie before holding short of the runway. Would the following suffice as a taxi route: "Amtran fifty-seventy-nine heavy, taxi to runway 16L via Bravo" Or would it need to include the very small portion of the taxi on Charlie? (Link to airport diagram: http://myairplane.com/databases/approach/pdfs/00582AD.PDF) Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:05 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:05 AM Read this: http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=56328 I think you would need to say via C, B. Hopefully that answers your question Nick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:26 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:26 AM [MOD - Off topic RJ 800012] WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:32 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:32 AM No, I'm sorry, but it's not a video game. It's a simulation and I find it very hypocritical that you would say that, Dennis, being an ex-VATUSA1 and ex-ZTL ATM yourself. This is a simulation that needs to be taken down a notch from real-world, but still taken seriously. The video game that you speak of can be purchased from atcsimulator.com, wilcopub.com, and many others. JM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:38 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:38 AM [MOD - Off topic RJ 800012] WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:42 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:42 AM I see your point, but we should still take these real-world events into effect. We don't need to fine someone over a mess up, but we should encourage people to follow the major FAA procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:46 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:46 AM Who really cares? It's a video game. Nothing more, nothing less ! It makes me feel all tingly inside when I pretend to be a real controller. Let me have my fun! Nick Bartolotta - ZSE Instructor, pilot at large "Just fly it on down to within a inch of the runway and let it drop in from there." - Capt. Don Lanham, ATA Airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:50 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:50 AM [MOD - Off Topic RJ 800012] WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:50 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 01:50 AM OMG!!! Nick Bartolotta...that's why you're the man haha...good way to put it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Finney 997250 Posted May 20, 2008 at 05:28 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 05:28 AM With this change in mind, what's the best way to handle cases where the controller and pilot have different (one older, one newer) scenery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Turner Posted May 20, 2008 at 07:31 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 07:31 AM [Mod.: Off topic. -GSM (800006) Take a deep breath Dennis... Let it out.... Breath in.... let it out again..... Jeff "JU" Turner US Army Retired http://www.skyblueradio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted May 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM Posted May 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM For pilots this is most likely a change you will see at major airports or airports where there's a GND or TWR on. It might be hard for CTR to pull up an airport chart for KABC, a little cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] D airport, especially when CTR has 20 airborne aircraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted May 20, 2008 at 03:39 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 03:39 PM Ummm, A Center controller has 20 aircraft inbound? And now he has to text a guy with a clearance? "Ahh roger that Center, we'll be ready to TAIX--- just as soon as clean my room and have dinner. Wow !!! That's as real as it can possibly can get!!! Tell the pilot to taxi to runway whatever, and possibly hold short. Then, cleared for takeoff pretty much sums it up. If he doesn't fly in the right direction, the tell him to turn right or left. After he gets on his way, then leave him alone if it looks like he is not going to hit anything. Oh, and the question about having the correct scenery. What is the difference??? The answer is is same. "What's the difference?" Let me see if I have another quarter to put in the slot. D WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Smith Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:04 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:04 PM (edited) Justin nailed it. This is going to need to be one of those real world policies from which we occasionally deviate when controlling on VATSIM. In the real world, a ground controller handles ground movements at precisely one airport. As a ZLA center controller, handling all of the Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] B/C/D airports within the Los Angeles ARTCC, I do not have the ability to pull up facility diagrams to taxi an aircraft while working 10-20 other aircraft at the same time, many of which will need time-sensitive instructions. I understand why they're doing this in the real world, but the policy should not be blindly copied over to VATSIM. If you are working a GND position, then by all means, adhere to the standard, it will only make you more familiar with your airport, but it's not practical for APP/CTR controllers who are providing downstream services (GND/DEL/TWR). Edited May 21, 2008 at 08:57 PM by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:11 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:11 PM I fully agree KS. This isn't something that should have a large impact, if any at all, on VATSIM, unless you operate a tower at a small airport on a normal basis. -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:15 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:15 PM Correct. Not a big deal. So just get the pilot going to fulfill their gaming experience. If a virtual controller want to spill out al lof the details to make him/her feel good, then that's okay too. D WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Pinto 964946 Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:26 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:26 PM Agreed Keith! ________________________________________ Bruno Pinto VATME - OOMM - C3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:48 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 04:48 PM Correct. Not a big deal. So just get the pilot going to fulfill their gaming experience. If a virtual controller want to spill out al lof the details to make him/her feel good, then that's okay too. D So, there is now something wrong with providing background information on why these changes to the 7110 have occurred? Again, wonderful to have you back Dennis... sure wish you were USA1 again. -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Whitley 952478 Posted May 20, 2008 at 08:25 PM Posted May 20, 2008 at 08:25 PM I do too, but my mistake was listening to the wrong people. My humble apologies Maybe I will do better this time around D WWW.VATUSA.NET Previous Management New ATC Click Here http://flightsimx.cyclops.amnesia.com.au/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Atkielski 985811 Posted May 21, 2008 at 06:28 PM Posted May 21, 2008 at 06:28 PM Who really cares? It's a video game. Nothing more, nothing less ! That's the difference between gaming and simulation. Simmers care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Hensley 950569 Posted May 21, 2008 at 08:04 PM Posted May 21, 2008 at 08:04 PM TOUCHE` Dennis, OUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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