Joaquin Blanco Posted August 23, 2008 at 02:46 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 02:46 PM Would appreciate info about the most challenging approaches in the US from the topography/terrain point of view. Ideally runways capable of handling 737 series. Thanks in advance. Best regards Joaquin Blanco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Bolt Posted August 23, 2008 at 03:03 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 03:03 PM The VOR/GPS B approach into PSP (Palm Springs) is a pretty good one http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0808/00545VGB.PDF You got some cliffs to worry about on either side. I would recommend a teardrop into the hold. Actually, thats the only way, or your gonna hit the mountains. Eric R. Bolt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Johns Posted August 23, 2008 at 03:26 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 03:26 PM Colorado Ski County is great for this stuff. ASE has one of the steepest glide ratios of any airport in the US. The departure procedure is pretty hairy as well. The airport is restricted to a wingspan of 95' or less though, so, 737-6/7/8/900 can't get in there. Weight might be an issue too, and 737s aren't seen flying in to ASE that I'm aware of. Speaking of departures, EGE, just to the north, has a nuts departure procedure to the west. The approaches aren't all that insane, but very pretty, and very LONG. They handle 757s regularly during Ski Season. I dunno... the mountain airports have an awful lot of challenging procedures, but challenging and airliner-sized aircraft don't often mix. Try some of these technical approaches to tiny airports in a Lear, then see what you think It opens up a lot more real estate for sure! ~Nate Nate Johns "All things are difficult before they are easy." - Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted August 23, 2008 at 04:51 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 04:51 PM The VOR/GPS B approach into PSP (Palm Springs) is a pretty good one http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0808/00545VGB.PDF You got some cliffs to worry about on either side. I would recommend a teardrop into the hold. Actually, thats the only way, or your gonna hit the mountains. How you enter the hold is totally dependent on what direction you are approaching the holding fix from... teardrop is not the only way to enter the hold at TRM on that approach. It's definitely a fun one. I enjoy seeing traffic in and out of there while working SOCAL combined (now that they've incorporated PSP TRACON into the SOCAL TRACON). Some other good ones I've flown and would recommend (with regards to complexity with terrain) include: VOR/DME-A into Ramona (RNM) - SOCAL TRACON - San Diego sector. LOC 27 into San Diego Intl-Lindbergh Field (SAN) - SOCAL TRACON - San Diego sector. Four Stacks Visual runway 15 into Burbank-Bob Hope - SOCAL TRACON - Burbank sector. VOR-C into Henderson - Las Vegas TRACON. Anytime Las Vegas-McCarran Intl goes into east/north ops, conducting visuals/instrument approaches to the 1s/7s there is quite entertaining with the terrain - Las Vegas TRACON. Regards, AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joaquin Blanco Posted August 23, 2008 at 05:47 PM Author Posted August 23, 2008 at 05:47 PM Flew into ASE once on an ATR72 and with ATC and quite a bit of traffic around and it was very challenging and enjoyabe, one of the best ever. Haven't tried any of the other airports yet so it looks as if I'm going to be busy for a while..... Thank you guys. Regards Best regards Joaquin Blanco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Sculley-Beaman Posted August 23, 2008 at 06:06 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 06:06 PM River 9 (I think that's what its called) into DCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin A. Martin Posted August 23, 2008 at 06:24 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 06:24 PM River visual rwy 19 approach into DCA, LDA/DME rwy 19 into DCA, Rosslyn LDA rwy 19 DCA, Interstate visual up at LGA, and there's one up at JFK I can't remeber the name of. Take care, Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted August 23, 2008 at 07:43 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 07:43 PM In response to Nate, 737s aren't allowed in ASE in the real world, but somehow VATSIM pilots have gotten 747s into there. I think the brake maintenance bill is probably quite rediculous, but it is possible in FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Richey 985064 Posted August 23, 2008 at 08:25 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 08:25 PM I just shot an GPS approach into Hartford (KHFD)....it's an interesting offset approach requiring a ~45 degree turn to line up with the runway under a mile off the end of RWY 2. Keep in mind that this is a GA only airport and air carrier operations are not allowed. ZLA Pilot Cert I-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Richey 985064 Posted August 23, 2008 at 08:27 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 08:27 PM I dunno... the mountain airports have an awful lot of challenging procedures, but challenging and airliner-sized aircraft don't often mix. Try some of these technical approaches to tiny airports in a Lear, then see what you think Very Happy It opens up a lot more real estate for sure! Blasphemer! How dare you suggest people on VATSIM fly something other than an airliner! ZLA Pilot Cert I-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Richey 985064 Posted August 23, 2008 at 08:46 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 08:46 PM A few other interesting/challenging/difficult approaches: Mercer County, West Virginia (KBLF)- 100+ ft dropoffs at each end of RWY 5/23 Taos, NM (KSKX)- the cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ic "black hole" airport Santa Paula, CA (KSZP)- interesting airport with buildings close to the runway....a crosswind could make things very interesting. ZLA Pilot Cert I-03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Guyer 1031616 Posted August 23, 2008 at 11:46 PM Posted August 23, 2008 at 11:46 PM Some other good ones I've flown and would recommend (with regards to complexity with terrain) include: Funny that all of your list is fully within the ZLA airspace www.zhuartcc.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Goldsworthy 925085 Posted August 24, 2008 at 12:11 AM Posted August 24, 2008 at 12:11 AM and there's one up at JFK I can't remeber the name of. That would be the VOR or GPS RWY 13L/13R. AKA the Canarsie visual. That is a fun one. Shawn "SX" Goldsworthy Retired ATM/ Staff Instructor Los Angeles ARTCC N123SX | xxx554 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted August 24, 2008 at 12:40 AM Posted August 24, 2008 at 12:40 AM Some other good ones I've flown and would recommend (with regards to complexity with terrain) include: Funny that all of your list is fully within the ZLA airspace Well, what can I say? The ZLA airspace happens to have some complex terrain... which is what the author of this post was looking for with his approach preferences! -AJ Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Rutila 974112 Posted August 24, 2008 at 02:02 AM Posted August 24, 2008 at 02:02 AM Here's a good list, too. Roaring Forks Visual Runway 15 into Aspen (ASE) - Aspen TRACON ILS Runway 32 into Buckey (BKF) - D01 TRACON - Buckley Sector ILS Runway 16L into DEN - D01 TRACON - Denver Sectors VOR-DME B into Hayden (HDN) - Denver Center - Yampa Valley Sector LOC/DME into Telluride (TEX) - Denver Center - Telluride Sector NDB Runway 35L into Colorado Springs (COS) - Colorado Springs Sectors LDA/DME Runway 29 into Grand Junction (GJT) - Denver TRACON - Grand Junction Sector! Although these are legit, I'm just joking ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Rogers 913862 Posted August 24, 2008 at 02:15 AM Posted August 24, 2008 at 02:15 AM Try a stright in 26R in Honolulu or better yet try landing on the 22s in an Airliner! (in west ops the only approch and runway we use for Airliners landing is 22L wiht the localizer and you have to turn to get the Field Visualy when you run out of the LOC Andrew Rogers Senior Controller -HCF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Johnston 890281 Posted August 24, 2008 at 02:53 AM Posted August 24, 2008 at 02:53 AM All of the approaches into JAC and COD are fun. Not necessarily challenging, but the scenery is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas Fredrich 827138 Posted September 15, 2008 at 05:12 AM Posted September 15, 2008 at 05:12 AM Harbor Visual RY 29 - PWM (Portland Int'l Jetport - Portland,ME) Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Guffey 956726 Posted September 15, 2008 at 12:23 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 12:23 PM Stadium Visual 24R LAX VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Baxter 920557 Posted September 15, 2008 at 01:20 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 01:20 PM The last two are challenging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Guffey 956726 Posted September 15, 2008 at 06:35 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 06:35 PM The last two are challenging? no just fun VATSIM Supervisor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Littlejohn Posted September 15, 2008 at 07:21 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 07:21 PM (edited) I'll chime in. Four Stacks Visual into Burbank (BUR). Don't confuse BUR with VNY or WHP! Full ILS or VOR/DME 17 into Victorville (VCV). The procedure turn is fun. When configuration #6 is in use at LAS (landing 19L/R and 7R, departing 7L), the Stratosphere*cough*gag*hack*phlegm* right traffic visual approach to 19L or 19R. Buzz the needlepoint on the tower (there's a death drop and rollercoaster ride up there! Scare the riders! ) on the base turn inbound while left traffic ops are still being used. good stuff!* I'll surely think of more, but those three stick out for right now. BL. * about 6 years ago (real world here) someone did an illegal BASE jump off the tower just as the rollercoaster was starting up and a Falcon jet had turned base INSIDE (south of) the tower he barely missed the wing. There's a picture of it out on google and a World's wildest something TV show somewhere.. Edited September 15, 2008 at 10:26 PM by Guest Brad Littlejohn ZLA Senior Controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wheeler 983770 Posted September 15, 2008 at 07:54 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 07:54 PM The *Cough* Stratosphere visual is one of the more intresting approaches, especially when your say in a 757 or something that can handle 19R and parking at atlantic, you get a nice view of the town. Mark ZLA Rated V-3/I-11/S-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Everette Posted September 15, 2008 at 08:18 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 08:18 PM Not a "single" approach, but rather an approach sequence. When I lived up in New England, and PVD was landing 5. Sometimes for currency or just to have fun, would fly the VOR 34 into OQU, go missed, immediately onto the ILS 5 into PVD, go missed and then shoot the VOR/DME 34, circle to land 5 (with the arc) back into PVD. When you're shooting the first approach, you're essentially briefing two approaches at once (for the ILS 5 as well). It's quite a challenge and fun to do under the hood. Definitely forces you to think well ahead of the airplane. Sometimes I'd get the published missed off the VOR 34, and sometimes I'd get an alternate missed which was essentially a vector to join the ILS 5 LOC. For a single approach: ILS 27 into YKM (with the arc), or the ILS/DME 11 into CEC (north arc). Or, not sure if it's commercially served, but shoot the VOR/DME 15 into MTN down to minimums, then fly the missed. -Dan Everette CFI, CFII, MEI Having the runway in sight just at TDZE + 100 is like Mom, Warm cookies and milk, and Christmas morning, all wrapped into one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Doubleday Posted September 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM Posted September 15, 2008 at 10:16 PM Just a comment Brad (sorry bit off topic)... the right-traffic stratosphere visual is no longer used (I think most are aware of that)... during normal ops at LAS - Config #1 25/19 op - this approach conflicts with the departure corridor too much which is why it was phased out (this is especially important for us on VATSIM now that LAS local is rolling-boundary notification with departures). Now they use a left-traffic visual (I run this on VATSIM as well) in which you cross over RELIN (25L Final Approach Fix) above the 25 arrivals and then descend, turn base direct the stratosphere tower to stay outside of the Nellis Airspace, then final abeam the tower for the 19s... when it's flown correctly - I've received awesome complements from pilots on this one! Worth a shot running it this way... Add the left-traffic 19 visual at LAS to the challenging approaches - requires good situational awareness on the pilot-side AND it offers a great view of the strip (not to mention the potential for crossing traffic all around you as well). -AJ P.S. - They removed the roller coaster off of the top of the Stratosphere (too boring) - added a couple of new rides though (including one which hangs you off over the edge of the tower making you feel like you're going to drop to a horrendous death, and a swing ride which I believe might be the highest off the ground in the world...). The only original thing they still have is the big-shot on the top, I think... Sorry for the excess info - I researched that city tremendously during my L30 training - I like to be familiar with local things in airspace I study and work Andrew James Doubleday | Twitch Stream: Ground_Point_Niner University of North Dakota | FAA Air Traffic Collegiate Training Initiative (AT-CTI) Graduate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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