Jump to content

You're browsing the 2004-2023 VATSIM Forums archive. All content is preserved in a read-only fashion.
For the latest forum posts, please visit https://forum.vatsim.net.

Need to find something? Use the Google search below.

Houston hosts FNO Friday Nov. 28


Richard Ruminski
 Share

Recommended Posts

Richard Ruminski
Posted
Posted (edited)

fno.jpg

 

Featuring KMSY from 8PM EST / 5PM PST

Date: Friday, November 28, 2008

 

 

edit: Time

Edited by Guest

Ric Ruminski I1

VATUSA11

Communications Manager VATUSA

email: VATUSA11 (at) vatusa.net

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eric Shank Van Eenige 9979
Posted
Posted

Not to be snippy, but I must point out that because GMT advances the date as well as the time, the correct GMT date and time for the FNO is Saturday, November 29 from 0100Z - 0500Z.

 

This is the same as:

11/28 5-9 p.m. PST

11/28 6-10 p.m. MST

11/28 7-11 p.m. CST

11/28 8-12 p.m. EST

 

Yes?

Eric Shank Van Eenige

Real-World Private Pilot

vZAU Enroute Controller

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Matt Bromback
Posted
Posted

Why cant all events in VATUSA be posted in the local time zone for the hosting ARTCC/airport??? There are plenty of tools available via GOOGLE which can convert it to your local time zone if needed.

 

I think this would prevent any future mis-understandings with this issue.

Matt Bromback

Air Traffic Manager

N[Mod - Happy Thoughts]au FIR

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nate Johns
Posted
Posted

Or, perhaps best, post both zulu AND local, brilliant!

 

~Nate

Nate Johns

 

"All things are difficult before they are easy."

- Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anthony Atkielski 985811
Posted
Posted
Why cant all events in VATUSA be posted in the local time zone for the hosting ARTCC/airport??? There are plenty of tools available via GOOGLE which can convert it to your local time zone if needed.

 

I think this would prevent any future mis-understandings with this issue.

 

UTC produces far less confusion than local time zones, since it is the same everywhere and never changes. That's why it is used universally in aviation.

 

If you think local time works better, try to emulate an arbitrary, real-world flight on VATSIM and see if it actually departs and arrives at the same time that you do. I've been there and done that, many times, and it's a mess.

8564.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nate Johns
Posted
Posted

If you think local time works better, try to emulate an arbitrary, real-world flight on VATSIM and see if it actually departs and arrives at the same time that you do. I've been there and done that, many times, and it's a mess.

 

Last I knew, airline schedules were published with local arrival and departure times. Hmm... probably because it's less confusing to the vast majority of the public who barely tolerate DST, let alone the complexities of UTC.

 

~Nate

Nate Johns

 

"All things are difficult before they are easy."

- Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anthony Atkielski 985811
Posted
Posted
Last I knew, airline schedules were published with local arrival and departure times.

 

Yes, that's why it's a mess trying to emulate those real-world flights.

 

Hmm... probably because it's less confusing to the vast majority of the public who barely tolerate DST, let alone the complexities of UTC.

 

The vast majority of the public doesn't pilot airplanes. Pilots do, however, and they use UTC everywhere in the world—precisely because it is less complex than dozens of local time zones.

8564.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ross Carlson
Posted
Posted

I say post both, with emphasis given to the local time. Such as:

 

Such and such event, happening this Saturday 20:00 EST Local. (Sunday 0300 Zulu)

 

We really need both, since if only zulu time is posted, we're always left wondering whether or not the person posting the announcement remembered to convert the DATE portion to zulu time as well. That's the big source of confusion that I've seen in these forums ... it's not the time zone differences.

Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy

Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nate Johns
Posted
Posted
Last I knew, airline schedules were published with local arrival and departure times.

 

Yes, that's why it's a mess trying to emulate those real-world flights.

 

Hmm... probably because it's less confusing to the vast majority of the public who barely tolerate DST, let alone the complexities of UTC.

 

The vast majority of the public doesn't pilot airplanes. Pilots do, however, and they use UTC everywhere in the world—precisely because it is less complex than dozens of local time zones.

 

And, arguably, the vast majority of VATSIM users also dont actually pilot airplanes or have direct experience with zulu time to any reasonable extent. Post both times.

 

~Nate

Nate Johns

 

"All things are difficult before they are easy."

- Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eric Shank Van Eenige 9979
Posted
Posted

Or, if we just start posting events in UTC correctly, no conversion will be required.

 

Posting both times is like saying that UTC isn't sufficient. We're simulating aviation, and we should tell time like aviators.

Eric Shank Van Eenige

Real-World Private Pilot

vZAU Enroute Controller

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nate Johns
Posted
Posted

And yet, practical reality says lets try and be kind to people that dont have a clue how to convert Zulu time. We are not time nazis here...

 

I've been seriously involved with aviation a scant 10 years, I do ATC for a living now, and I still dont like converting between local and zulu... DST changes, addition, subtraction, 12 to 24 hour clock... I mean, cmon, why make people think hard when all you're trying to do is help them show up at an event when everyone else should be?

 

Even TV stations post at least one conversion, you know, like "New show at 10, 9 Central." Sure, it's not Zulu, but still, converting time can be a real pain. Is it really that hard to help?

 

~Nate

 

PS - This isn't directed at Ric or anything involving this or previous event postings... only arguing that future posts should contain both Z and Local time.

Nate Johns

 

"All things are difficult before they are easy."

- Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eric Shank Van Eenige 9979
Posted
Posted
This isn't directed at Ric or anything involving this or previous event postings...

+1

 

I'm not trying to target Ric for anything... mistaken time conversion can happen to anyone. I once missed an event by a full day because it was posted with the proper date (Friday, 0000Z), so I showed up on Friday night local time, only to find out that the event had happened the night before.

 

But I learned my lesson, hence the reason I pointed out the time difference at the top of this thread.

 

And, I must agree that posting both times encourages people to make the conversion and double-check it, so I suppose that posting both times encourages education. So, I guess I've changed my mind. Post both times so there is no confusion, and you'll be encouraging people to practice their time conversion skills.

Eric Shank Van Eenige

Real-World Private Pilot

vZAU Enroute Controller

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anthony Atkielski 985811
Posted
Posted

Posting multiple times seems fine, as long as one of them is always UTC.

 

It may not be as useful as it seems, though, because flights of non-trivial length will cross time zones, anyway. If the FNO airport(s) is in time zone A, and someone is flying into the area from zone E, having the local time posted for the FNO venue adds nothing that UTC doesn't already provide, because a conversion is necessary in any case. The advantage of UTC is that it only requires people to memorize one conversion (between their own time and UTC), whereas posting local times requires people to look up conversions for one or more zones in order to get from local time at some arbitrary point on the globe to local time wherever they are operating. Since so many flights cross time zones, this is a very common problem, and universal use of UTC in the real world of aviation was put in place to solve it.

8564.png
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Josh Guyer 1031616
Posted
Posted

Yeah! Alright! Let's have a great FNO!!! WOOOOO!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Paul Heaney 879309
Posted
Posted
We are not time nazis here...

 

Ahh the dreaded Bill O'Reilly approach, guess it was destined to happen in this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nate Johns
Posted
Posted
Ahh the dreaded Bill O'Reilly approach, guess it was destined to happen in this thread.

 

WTF, over?

 

~Nate

Nate Johns

 

"All things are difficult before they are easy."

- Dr. Thomas Fuller, Gnomologia, 1732

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kyle Vander Ark 1027773
Posted
Posted

The event was great!! My first night controlling!! I loved it and we had a ton of traffic!

- 42 Shots on Airliners.net -

"I haven't failed. I've found 10,000 ways that don't work." - Thomas Edison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ross Carlson
Posted
Posted

Great job Houston ... I flew in from ATL ... the ATC was excellent!

Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy

Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Karl Kornel 964857
Posted
Posted
And yet, practical reality says lets try and be kind to people that dont have a clue how to convert Zulu time. We are not time nazis here...

 

I call Godwin's Law; I win!

 

Oh, and I also apologize to vZHU, and I think vZME also. As the controller staffing CVG_GND during part of the FNO, I can say that we at vZID will be a little more careful next time we send you a flood of Delta flights!

A. Karl Kornel - vZID C1, FE, and Mentor

Smoke Bomb! POOF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share