Raffael WALTHER Posted January 14, 2009 at 02:18 PM Posted January 14, 2009 at 02:18 PM Hallo Maybe this posting is only read by a small part of the pilots who it actually concerns. In Swiss FIR we often have pilots who depart from Geneva (LSGG) or Bale (LFSB) without contacting Swiss Radar (LSAS_CTR) for clearance. The reason meight be that the think these airports are French. This is only partially true! Geneva This airport is only controlled by Swiss FIR. You need to call the following controller for clearance (decreasing priority) 1. Appropriate station in Geneva (LSGG_GND, LSGG_A_GND,....) 2. LSAS_G_CTR 3. LSAS_CTR Bale Reality Bale is a Swiss City but the airport is on French territory (there is a swiss corridor to the airport). The airport itself has an EU and a Swiss area. VATSIM The airport is shared between France VACC and Swiss FIR. Stations in Basel can be staffed by controllers from both VACC/FIR. If no station in Bale is online, the priority for enroute-clearance is as follows: 1. LFEE_CTR 2. LSAS_CTR(there meight be also a middle letter) 3. LFFF_CTR You don't need to learn this by hearth! Just remember the following: 1. Geneva is controlled by Swiss FIR 2. Bale is also controlled by Swiss FIR 3. LSAS_CTR (maybe with middle letter) also gives clearances on these airports Kind regards Raffael Walther Leader Operation Swiss FIR Best regards Raffael Walther vACC Switzerland [email protected] [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastien Bartosz Posted January 18, 2009 at 01:08 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 01:08 PM When you say "The priority for enroute clearance....-> 3. LFFF_CTR" I'm not familiar with the LOA, but the boundry for the Paris FIR is actually quite far from the airport. I think Bale would be out of the vis range for LFFF_CTR. But like I said, I'm not familiar with the French-Swiss LOA. So I think it would be best to contact Reims LFEE_CTR if online, and if not contact LSAS_CTR. But if they're not online, I would say stick with UNICOM.. Seb New York ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffael WALTHER Posted January 18, 2009 at 06:21 PM Author Posted January 18, 2009 at 06:21 PM Hello Sebastien Well, you are completly right with the "Distance from Paris to Bale"! That's why LFFF is only at the 3rd position. But LFSB still also belongs to France and therefore also LFFF_CTR (who cover's LFEE airspace if LFEE_CTR is offline) can control this airport. BTW: It was explicitly requested by your VACC that LFFF_CTR can also be responsible for Bale. Kind regards Raffael Walther Leader Swiss FIR Operation Best regards Raffael Walther vACC Switzerland [email protected] [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas George 827476 Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:04 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:04 PM Well, again not having heavy knowledge of the details of the LOA..... As we know, at the discretion of the controller and subject to traffic, LFFF_CTR often covers Bordeaux, Reims, Brest, M[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ille and Paris. Consequently it would probably be more accurate to put Reims down, with the understanding that more often than not this is covered by LFFF. TG Thomas George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastien Bartosz Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:25 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:25 PM What do you mean when you say LFFF often covers Brest, Bordeaux, Reims, M[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ille, and Paris? LFFF is Paris, I've see some of my buddies doing LFFF and LFRR at the same time, but not all 5 FIR's at once! Seb New York ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas George 827476 Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:35 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:35 PM Well, I've not been around in France so much lately but I have seen heavily extended coverage during quiet times before. As I say, since I came out of France in my vACC Support capacity a couple of years ago I haven't had a great deal to do with such things. Thomas George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastien Bartosz Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:46 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 07:46 PM Maybe you got mixed up with France Control I was talking to you a few days ago? New York ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas George 827476 Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:21 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:21 PM If you mean LFUP, no, because that's just above FL245. The level of service was largely RAS rather than full blown ATC I guess. I mean, a controller can't know every SID and STAR in France (I would be very impressed if someone could prove me wrong!). Thomas George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastien Bartosz Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:27 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:27 PM AT MOST every SID/STAR for the major airports in each FIR ! I would be extremely impressed if someone could do that too New York ARTCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas George 827476 Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:44 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:44 PM I bet you're flicking through the French AIP as we speak! *g* Thomas George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Fuchs Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:45 PM Posted January 18, 2009 at 08:45 PM Well, if you have quick-reference sheets, it is no problem to quickly provide ATC-clearances for a high number of airports. In Swiss FIR we have a "Quick Reference Sheet", containing all these bits: http://www.vacc-sag.org/airport/LFSB (see the box "Controller Files" on the right side, there load Swiss FIR Quick Reference Sheet. Cheers, Andreas Member of VATSIM GermanyMy real flying on InstagramMy Twitch streams of VATSIM flights and ATC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffael WALTHER Posted January 19, 2009 at 09:35 AM Author Posted January 19, 2009 at 09:35 AM Hello Thomas Well, again not having heavy knowledge of the details of the LOA..... As we know, at the discretion of the controller and subject to traffic, LFFF_CTR often covers Bordeaux, Reims, Brest, M[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ille and Paris. Consequently it would probably be more accurate to put Reims down, with the understanding that more often than not this is covered by LFFF. TG Yes but IF LFEE and LFFF is online (and LSAS not), then LFEE covers Bale. That's why LFFF comes after LFEE (even that LFFF is more often online than LFEE). Best regards Raffael Walther vACC Switzerland [email protected] [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas George 827476 Posted January 19, 2009 at 10:33 AM Posted January 19, 2009 at 10:33 AM Raffael, That is my point of view too. Thomas George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Marie Corda 810810 Posted January 20, 2009 at 08:55 AM Posted January 20, 2009 at 08:55 AM I've the same Point of view. The priority gave by Raffael is the good way to obtains in all situation an ACC clairance when there were ATC on range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffael WALTHER Posted January 20, 2009 at 12:47 PM Author Posted January 20, 2009 at 12:47 PM @Thomas Ok, then I've missunderstood you! I thought that you would move LFFF_CTR one position up (above LFEE_CTR) in the priority list. Best regards Raffael Walther vACC Switzerland [email protected] [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas George 827476 Posted January 20, 2009 at 09:21 PM Posted January 20, 2009 at 09:21 PM Nope, I was saying that if LFFF is acting as LFEE, then obviously LFFF defaults as being 3rd priority, that's all. Thomas George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffael WALTHER Posted January 21, 2009 at 08:30 AM Author Posted January 21, 2009 at 08:30 AM Ah ok not it's clear! Thank you. Best regards Raffael Walther vACC Switzerland [email protected] [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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