Tower Airspace responsibility.

[Daniel Eamon Brennan]

EDIT: And the 'silly american' stuff applies because it seems to me (personal feeling) that the GRP was based upon American system (and that it seems S2 is as well just suitable for America... just a feeling

What makes you feel that way? 95% of our airports can be handled by S1s just fine until the implementation of S2. Just because the people who wrote the policy happen to be American doesn't mean that it was an 'american idea'.

 

Also ZNY is stands pretty much alone in the regard of having people on delivery for an arbitrary amount of hours almost all other ARTCCs have no such restriction for any position.

 

What of those students who are on a low in Europe? It was only a few months ago that when I saw EGLL it was always followed by GND.

 

As for procedural Tower I don't see how an approach rating applies as it is a function of the Tower facility which is all that matters, otherwise if non-radar separation applied by a tower requires an approach rating radar separation would require one as well. The bottom line is the only thing that matters is the controller should be trained to apply all separations relevant to their position and if the callsign happens to end in _TWR then that rating will apply and so be it. After all the GRP was created to allow more controllers to practice their skills before moving up (the success of which is still under debate).

 

RE the London-Heathrow comment, before the GRP was brought in, to control LHR you needed to be S3 with a validation. When the first lot of GRP was introduced, it was p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] a tower validation, then a LHR validation. Then it went to S1 tower EXAM p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and LHR validation. Now I believe it is S2 and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] a tower exam and a LHR validation. I think the reason for ground being online is controller preference and, convenience as it is simpler to have 1 tower and 1 ground as opposed to split towers and no ground. Best to have i.e N_TWR, S_TWR, N_GND, S_GND or W_GND or all three to save undue confusion for both controllers and pilots.

 

RE The tower comment with procedural gumpf, have yourself a sticker my man! Exactly what I was origninally getting at amongst a couple of other points.

[Daniel Eamon Brennan]

EDIT: And the 'silly american' stuff applies because it seems to me (personal feeling) that the GRP was based upon American system (and that it seems S2 is as well just suitable for America... just a feeling

What makes you feel that way? 95% of our airports can be handled by S1s just fine until the implementation of S2. Just because the people who wrote the policy happen to be American doesn't mean that it was an 'american idea'.

 

Also ZNY is stands pretty much alone in the regard of having people on delivery for an arbitrary amount of hours almost all other ARTCCs have no such restriction for any position.

 

What of those students who are on a low in Europe? It was only a few months ago that when I saw EGLL it was always followed by GND.

 

As for procedural Tower I don't see how an approach rating applies as it is a function of the Tower facility which is all that matters, otherwise if non-radar separation applied by a tower requires an approach rating radar separation would require one as well. The bottom line is the only thing that matters is the controller should be trained to apply all separations relevant to their position and if the callsign happens to end in _TWR then that rating will apply and so be it. After all the GRP was created to allow more controllers to practice their skills before moving up (the success of which is still under debate).

 

RE the London-Heathrow comment, before the GRP was brought in, to control LHR you needed to be S3 with a validation. When the first lot of GRP was introduced, it was p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] a tower validation, then a LHR validation. Then it went to S1 tower EXAM p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and LHR validation. Now I believe it is S2 and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] a tower exam and a LHR validation. I think the reason for ground being online is controller preference and, convenience as it is simpler to have 1 tower and 1 ground as opposed to split towers and no ground. Best to have i.e N_TWR, S_TWR, N_GND, S_GND or W_GND or all three to save undue confusion for both controllers and pilots.

 

RE The tower comment with procedural gumpf, have yourself a sticker my man! Exactly what I was origninally getting at amongst a couple of other points.