VATUK
By jonathan lambert 1347014
#498881 I wish to say sorry to the London control who was online at 18.00 hours tonight. I had been given a LAM1X departure at EGKK . This meant a change from my flight plan. I chose the departure in the CDU and rentered my v speeds.. Took off and was passed onto London control . I had activated the Auto pilot but had not checked the first leg of the departure. Poor guy screamed at me to turn right . I realised the LAM1X was not in the legs page , instead I was flying direct to LAM .
I was mortified at my error and disconnected immediately.
My apologies to anyone who was online at the time
By Sean Harrison 870618
#498883 Jonathan no big deal, personally I wouldn't have disconnected. You made an error doesn't mean you have to self penalise.

I did something similar last night at YSSY. It happens, jump back in mate.
By Ernesto Alvarez 818262
#498894 not to mention said controller may need a refresher on his own conduct ;) controllers job is not to tell people to go offline. thats a supervisors job, not theirs.

so you screwed up, you learned something right? thats what the network is about, learning. not screwing up and being told to go offline
By Jon Story 1357003
#500346 Yeah sounds like the controller was just being a bit precious.

I spent 5 minutes yesterday reading back ATC instructions and then not following them because I'd clicked the wrong button on my autopilot.

He clearly got more confused but carried on handling me "properly" (giving me new instructions). I then noticed and apologised... his response? "No problem", followed by more professional handling to the runway (including me turning 080 rather than 060 and flying parallel to, but not established on, EGKK 08R's ILS). Again, he corrected my approach and got me where I needed to be.

At the end of the day Vatsim is a simulator, essentially a game, and the majority of us are enthusiasts rather than real world pilots or controllers... if a mistake happens, apologise and move on
By John Kirk 1294770
#500395
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 wrote:
so you screwed up, you learned something right? thats what the network is about, learning. not screwing up and being told to go offline


Yes, fair enough he messed up but.... Your saying "Thats what the network is about" not really. If Vatsim was just a network full of pilots who dont know what there doing and not following instructions (Their are a a few) then it makes it no fun for other pilots and for the controllers. I think you are supposed to have a certain level of knowledge and understanding on how to use the network before you just jump on and use it.
By Frank Plummer 978437
#501201
John Kirk 1294770 wrote:
Ernesto Alvarez 818262 wrote:
so you screwed up, you learned something right? thats what the network is about, learning. not screwing up and being told to go offline


Yes, fair enough he messed up but.... Your saying "Thats what the network is about" not really. If Vatsim was just a network full of pilots who dont know what there doing and not following instructions (Their are a a few) then it makes it no fun for other pilots and for the controllers. I think you are supposed to have a certain level of knowledge and understanding on how to use the network before you just jump on and use it.

Agreed, but are you saying that mistakes cannot be made? Even the most competent VATSIM pilot, thousands of hours under their belt and the highest pilot rating available can have an issue or make a mistake. They do it in the real world; we are not aircraft FMCs, we are human and we do make mistakes! We aren't performing in a show or to a world stage, we are all here having fun. Whilst I agree that everyone should have a certain level of competency before attempting something, chasticing a pilot (or controller, for that matter) on the network for making a silly mistake is not the way, I feel.

If we had a VATSIM full of those that knew what they were doing 100%, the entry requirements to the network would be huge. We want new blood, the same as we want the old guard, otherwise things will stagnate and become dull very rapidly. Newbies who make mistakes, screw up and learn from them are just as welcome on the network as that member for 10 years who flies perfect SIDs by hand and you're 99% sure flies for British Airways real-world... :D

Not everyone wants to learn though, but that kind of user doesn't last very long. They will happily repeat back their departure clearence and then takeoff and climb in a completely different direction, despite the controller yelling at them. That isn't the kind of user we need, but it's a difficult distinction between that and the scared newbie at first glance.

jonathan lambert 1347014 wrote:I wish to say sorry to the London control who was online at 18.00 hours tonight. I had been given a LAM1X departure at EGKK . This meant a change from my flight plan. I chose the departure in the CDU and rentered my v speeds.. Took off and was passed onto London control . I had activated the Auto pilot but had not checked the first leg of the departure. Poor guy screamed at me to turn right . I realised the LAM1X was not in the legs page , instead I was flying direct to LAM .
I was mortified at my error and disconnected immediately.
My apologies to anyone who was online at the time

I'm sorry you had a bad time of it. Please don't feel disheartened - everyone (and I mean everyone) screws up. You don't deserve to be given an earfull because of it; despite being in charge of a virtual aircraft with virtual passengers and flying over a virtual town/city, this controllers virtual professionalism was very much absent. If you did that real world you would not have had such a yelling at - so I do struggle to understand why you did here. It's obvious from your post (to me, anyway) that you didn't intend or mean to cause disruption, so that says you're a decent chap who I daresay would be welcome to try again.

If you are reasonably new to VATSIM and the sim in general, you may want to practice at smaller regional fields and avoid the TMA until you're confident in your ability (or you've regained some confidence after your EGKK experience). I frequently fly new aircraft, new procedure types and practice hand-flying without the FMC at smaller airfields in smaller aircraft. It's very rewarding and great at honing the ol' brain cell. Might be an idea?
By Johnny Coughlan 861497
#505150 ATC's on VATSIM need to assume nobody can fly their plane properly unless they know them personally by callsign or by name.

Every plane I handle has a plan A in my head on how they're handled which is their flight plan routing, plan B come into effect once I realize plan A is clearly not working which is vectoring.

As an ATC I categorize pilots into 3 groups, those who can fly and not have to worry about, 'parrot' pilots who read back an intruction but can't act on it and won't tell you until you realize they can't act on it and the text 'copy and paster' pilots who are the same as the parrot pilots on voice.

Pilots who mess up in my area of operation under my control don't know I know because I vector them. Some ATCs are too focused sometimes on making sure pilots follow their 'exact' routing.

VATSIM has an open door, no exam policy on pilots so ATC 's needs to accept that, plan for it and try not loose the head BUT! r
emember, ATC's have also worked hard for their rating so slack should also be given to them if they do manage to loose their cool with some pilots who may have messed up.

There are no need for these public threads naming and shaming ATC's who lost their cool under the guise of an apology. Trust me I could make a video of my sessions that would make you cry in what I've to deal with but I don't because I deal with it, it's second nature now, I don't go running to these forum calling out the pilots on why they couldn't do XYZ.

Understanding goes a long way on both sides.
By Ernesto Alvarez 818262
#505162
ATC's have also worked hard for their rating so slack should also be given to them if they do manage to loose their cool with some pilots who may have messed up.

There are no need for these public threads naming and shaming ATC's who lost their cool under the guise of an apology. Trust me I could make a video of my sessions that would make you cry in what I've to deal with but I don't because I deal with it, it's second nature now, I don't go running to these forum calling out the pilots on why they couldn't do XYZ.


and heres the part i will totally disagree with because it seems to be an ongoing entitlement issue on the network. the "we had to train for it so we can do..... ", sorry that just isnt the case. ive been through the training program and others more then i can count, from the beginning ATC are informed of the process of becoming a controller and as much as people dont like to hear it, it does not give anyone an excuse to step over the line. if a controller gets frustrated, disconnect and cool off. its not a reason to take it out on anyone. if they feel its getting to that point, get a supervisor or disconnect, cause what typically happens is they cant control themselves and take it too far and i guarantee it will bite them in the butt when its reported.

the name and shame threads shouldnt occur at all, but also realize they happen much more when a pilot makes an error and people typically just play jokes. the minute it turns in the other direction though, people complain that they cant do that. cant have it both ways here, if we dont want these types of posts, end them completely. they arent hard to find, even topics that are supposed to be lite hearted joking like the "funniest things you heard on the radio" which has been ongoing for years now, often gets posts naming and shaming pilots
By Paul Stevens 1012981
#515210 I think its a case of pilots being honest and ATC being accommodating regarding people's individual level of knowledge. I'm new (well new after a 10 year break!). I'm fine with being vectored for approaches but I don't know how to fly designated approaches like STARS, although I want to learn that its going to take a little while and I would expect controllers to be able to work with that and to be flexible. Being rude to people or making them feel inadequate only puts people off. I found VATSIM quite intimidating all those years ago, hence the long break!
By Morten Jelle 1012739
#515228 This thing keeps popping up, controllers that screams on the frequency. I can't say I haven't done that before, even I was a new controller when I started. However, I've learned (Yes, I said learned) to cope with this stuff. This is not the real world, this is simulator network, and we still have to be respectful to new pilots.
I am aware some airspaces are more crowded than others, and the best suggestion from my point of view, might be to fly to less crowded airspace, if you are new or still a little unsure. But screaming and yelling and ask people to disconnect is not the right way.

Some peole will disagree - we all have different opinions.
By Kieran Samuel Cross 1298134
#515232
Morten Jelle 1012739 wrote:This thing keeps popping up, controllers that screams on the frequency. I can't say I haven't done that before, even I was a new controller when I started. However, I've learned (Yes, I said learned) to cope with this stuff. This is not the real world, this is simulator network, and we still have to be respectful to new pilots.
I am aware some airspaces are more crowded than others, and the best suggestion from my point of view, might be to fly to less crowded airspace, if you are new or still a little unsure. But screaming and yelling and ask people to disconnect is not the right way.

Some peole will disagree - we all have different opinions.



Honestly, if you can't control a specific piece of airspace, which you have been trained for (for example, LON_CTR), without losing your cool, the validation should be revoked until you have been trained sufficiently enough to avoid this.

If you can't, you'd be breaking the GRP A8, which specifies Displays professional behaviour and pleasant attitude. Naturally, if you are breaking the GRP, you should be re-trained.