By Dominic Nguyen 1200795
#499187 Gentlemen,

I was a former controller at vZOA ARTCC and I'm seeking thoughts from everyone and mostly from the staff to combine Oakland Oceanic and vZOA ARTCC of VATUSA. As you know, in the RW, Oakland Oceanic is in the same facility with Oakland Air Route Traffic Control Center and split into domestic and oceanic. Recently vZOA is getting back on track and blooming with activity. Frankly, we'd be lucky to ever see ZAK being staffed. vZOA also has 2 RW ZOA controllers, 1 who works in the domestic area and 1 who works both in the Pacific South area which has 2 radar positions and the rest ATOP positions.

As you know, Advanced Technologies and Oceanic Procedures (ATOP) has became the new technology for how we deal with aircrafts across the vast ocean. We have updated SOP's to keep you guys in the loop along with the RW controller to help us out. How the transition can be made seamlessly can be discussed later on, but the idea could be made where ZAK controllers are able to certify with ZOA.

The only cons I see would be deviating from the traditional VATPAC/VATNAO, other wise the big pro would be a boost in activity as our own ZOA controllers would be able to certify on Ocean 21.
By Camden Bruno 1253785
#499191 My first question stems from the fact that you state you are a former controller at ZOA. Have you reached out to ZOA themselves with this proposal? If not, they might not be interested in the first place.

Considering it is currently under the Pacific Oceanic Partnership, why not simply have those interested apply and get checked out through the partnership?

As their page states, "Controllers who pass the Oceanic rating at any of the member divisions are now entitled to staff any Pacific Oceanic position overseen by any of the member divisions. This means one rating allows you to staff oceanic positions from the west coast of the USA, south to Antarctica and even as far as the coast of Western Australia." That said, keeping it under the partnership will keep the opportunity for more people to staff it, resulting in more up-time.

Another thought, ZOA ARTCC could form a role in this partnership, in which they are approved to train and certify for Oakland Oceanic. This would result in updated documentation and such as well.
By Sean Harrison 870618
#499196 I'm with you Camden. I am an oceanic controller, and although not regularly, I do open up under the pacific partnership.

My thoughts are, the same. Why not just allow the ZOA guys who want to, get trained up.

If anything, it should be with Honolulu.
By Dominic Nguyen 1200795
#499277
Camden Bruno 1253785 wrote:My first question stems from the fact that you state you are a former controller at ZOA. Have you reached out to ZOA themselves with this proposal? If not, they might not be interested in the first place.

Considering it is currently under the Pacific Oceanic Partnership, why not simply have those interested apply and get checked out through the partnership?

Another thought, ZOA ARTCC could form a role in this partnership, in which they are approved to train and certify for Oakland Oceanic. This would result in updated documentation and such as well.


I just left the ARTCC a few days ago. The ATM and I were talking about it and I'm sure they're interested. Having those interested solely on their own isn't as strong and intuitive as being interested/known from within the ARTCC. Like I said, the only con I see of this is that you guys have a partnership already established. Please keep in mind that VATPAC and VATNZ follow full ICAO rules and phraseology. I do like the partnership that you mentioned with ZOA. That's a good starter to see how well it may go in terms of benefits for you guys and activity.


Sean Harrison 870618 wrote:If anything, it should be with Honolulu.


How would you compare it with ZHU and ZNY's Oceanic? As mentioned above, Oakland Oceanic is in the same facility as Oakland ARTCC.
By David Zhong 1027224
#499296 I can tell you for a fact that Australia (and therefore VATPAC) are not full ICAO.

ZAK should not be mixed in with ZHU and ZWY which follow Caribbean and North Atlantic rules respectively. The Pacific is much more advanced with the use of things like 50NM longitudinal and lateral separation for RNP10 aircraft whereas the North Atlantic are (so far) stuck with 10 mins longitudinal and 1 degree of latitude lateral separation. It is a very different operating environment.
By Don Desfosse 1035677
#499312 This thread surprised me when it came up, as I had not heard anything about it before.

I just discussed this briefly with ZOA. ZOA reports that they have not been in active discussions with the OP on this topic within the last few months, and neither ZOA nor VATUSA see any need for changes at this time. If there is a desire for change, it should and will be coordinated properly within the partnership.

That said, this conversation could bring about good ideas to discuss. Anything that increases the capability/capacity for airspace to be staffed is a good thing. The idea that if more ZOA folks could get formally involved with ZAK training and certification is a good one, but one that ZOA indicated to me tonight that they wish to defer until ZOA itself is stronger internally.
By Ernesto Alvarez 818262
#499324 i can tell ya for anyone that is interested, its not very difficult to get on oceanic. i started the process to get certified in the pacific partnership while i was with ZMA or Havana a few years back, cant remember exactly at what point, but it was fairly easy. just have to get used to looking at a much much bigger map lol and use the tools available, like spreadsheets to get the positions down, although even then, parts of the oceanic airspace are radar capable (if i remember right)

the only thing that got me was having the time to finish it lol
By Mark Hubbert 1054583
#499325 For the record. VATUSA 7 handles the operations of Oakland Oceanic with cooperation and support received and provided to the Pacific Partnership. Any ideas or suggestions with regards to Oceanic Operations in Oakland Oceanic should be directed to me [email protected]

I am certainly willing to work with any Oakland Controller or other C1 rated controller to provide training and certification. I personally have other concerns with regards to Oceanic Operations but that is a different topic and will be addressed through the proper channels.