By Mike Freeman 928875
#487012 Hello All,

Great work on the latest beta - shared cockpit working really well in my VA on the A320.

Really well that is - until this happened tonight :)

--

[21:25:22] SUP: Hi Michael, my name is [removed]I am VATSIM supervisor

[21:25:25] SUP: Are you there?

[21:25:39] BAW0472A: hello sir, im here

[21:26:05] SUP: sorry, we are verifying that the connection is not neglected!

[21:26:14] BAW0472A: with baw0472, in shared cockpit

[21:33:33] SUP: I remind you that the OBS option is only to be used as aerial observer of control!

[21:33:47] SUP: not for use as a shared cabin!
[21:34:35] BAW0472A: ok sir, can you advise how we operaate a shared cockpit please?

[21:35:46] BAW0472A: weve done a lot of research, and using the shared cockpit observer mode in vpilot. if we both connect as pilots our tcas goes wild and atc has 2x radar signatures.

[21:36:21] SUP: I can not tell you how to do it because I've never done!

[21:37:13] SUP: but the way you are doing it is lacking the code of conduct C.3

[21:38:21] BAW0472A: can i suggesst you take this up with vpilot sir? im not sre what to suggest.

[21:39:30] SUP: I can suggest you investigate in some forum! OBS because of the way is not right. As the word says OBS ... you are not looking!

[21:41:47] BAW0472A: sir, i have used the observer feature having read the forums. im committed to getting this right, and im not sure i appreciate your approach on taking me to task over it.

[21:42:34] SUP: I remind you again that the OBS indicator should be used only as an observer as indicated by the code of conduct vatsim

[21:43:15] BAW0472A: thank you for all your help

--

We've put a lot of work into getting this right for our VA, and I've written all sorts of technical guidance for our pilots.

Has anyone got any advice on this observer mode? Having checked the code of conduct C3 (cited by the useful supervisor fellow above) - it refers to prohibition of ATC as an observer, not aircraft operation.

I'm now going outside to kick a lampost. It might hurt a bit.

[Names removed - GL 967365]
Last edited by Gunnar Lindahl 967365 on Thu May 28, 2015 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: named removed
By Ernesto Alvarez 818262
#487014 you can send a copy of that to VP Sups, he'll make sure his supervisors know the difference between actual observers who are using the ATC client to watch traffic, and those in observer mode via the pilot clients.

and yes i also agree, the tact used by said sup needs work :wink: especially when you asked for information and he failed to respond accordingly, definitely needs work. thats not how they should be conducting themselves
By Chad Vienna 1195499
#487022
Mike Freeman 928875 wrote:[21:39:30] SUP: I can suggest you investigate in some forum! OBS because of the way is not right. As the word says OBS ... you are not looking!


At which point you could have responded:

"I assure you sir that I am indeed "looking".. As BAW472 has been snoring in his seat beside me for past 2000 miles..." :lol:

'might've actually been worth a possible temporary suspension. :)

Seriously; You handled that with great professionalism and more than a little restraint.
By Gunnar Lindahl 967365
#487053 Gents,

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Your method of connecting to the network for utilising the shared cockpit was correct, and the Supervisor was not aware of this method. I have provided guidance to all our Supervisors about this through our own channels. I'm sorry this caused some confusion.

With regards to allegations of inappropriate attitudes by a Supervisor: the forum is not the correct place to address this. You can always find me at vpsup(at)vatsim.net and I will investigate anything I am sent. I already have the full log of this incident through other means. I have removed the name of the Supervisor and some other content in this thread; regardless of how one thinks someone has responded, personally attacking them is immature and not on. Supervisors are volunteers who log onto the network to help users with no reward in return. Just like any other member, they do not deserve to be shot down on a public forum.

Thanks.
By Mike Freeman 928875
#487057 Many thanks indeed all for your responses and support.

Firstly - apologies for any suggestion of an attack. I beleive there might have been a minor language barrier (and the over-use of exclaimation marks) - and some of the SUPs comments were possibly taken, by me, in the wrong way.

When posted last night, I was annoyed at the embuggerance of handling this at 4000ft when my PF was on base leg and needed me to working with him. Sorry.

I should have edited out the names and in response to Gunnar - thank you, duly noted.

--

Secondly - I understand the process of connecting as an observer is deemed correct in shared flightdeck. Thank you for the clarification.

However, can I also ask for input on:

At the moment, we swap PF/PNF roles during mid-cruise. One of us flies the departure, the other - the approach.

The PNF handles the ATC comms, as the PF (connecting as observer) cannot transmit.

This means during cruise - we both disconnect from VATSIM, and swap our callsigns (using the A suffix for the observer).

It also means we log the same flightplan twice under the same callsign, but different vatsim accounts.

We are therefore only logging VATSIM pilot hours for the PNF (or if the PF handled comms, only they would be credited for the time).

Does anyone have an alternative? I understand the implications of having 2 VATSIM pilots in the same plane.
By Gunnar Lindahl 967365
#487069 Thanks Mike! No suggestion of a personal attack by yourself - I was responding to some other comments in this thread since removed.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
By Sam Collins 1321027
#489693
Chad Vienna 1195499 wrote:
Mike Freeman 928875 wrote:[21:39:30] SUP: I can suggest you investigate in some forum! OBS because of the way is not right. As the word says OBS ... you are not looking!


At which point you could have responded:

"I assure you sir that I am indeed "looking".. As BAW472 has been snoring in his seat beside me for past 2000 miles..." :lol:

'might've actually been worth a possible temporary suspension. :)

Seriously; You handled that with great professionalism and more than a little restraint.

Great idea! That would have made the supervisor leave straight away, probbalby embarrassed about arguing with a pilot flying with the captain fast asleep beside him! I'll be sure to use this if I ever have to.
By Dave Hodges 1101127
#490180 Ross,

Made a Shared Cockpit flight in one of the aircraft we have under Beta, and it we did not notice any problems with vPilot. One thing I found interesting is that we did not have to disable the Observer aircraft as one must do with FSINN. Are you using the Observer and Stealth modes when someone connects as Observer?

Anyway, nice to see vPilot as Shared Cockpit compatible - nicely done!
By Ross Carlson 887155
#490188
Dave Hodges 1101127 wrote:One thing I found interesting is that we did not have to disable the Observer aircraft as one must do with FSINN. Are you using the Observer and Stealth modes when someone connects as Observer?


Hi Dave, glad it's working well for you.

I'm not sure what you mean by "disable the Observer aircraft" ... I never used FSInn. I'm also not sure what you mean by Stealth mode. There is no such thing on VATSIM to my knowledge.
By Bradley Grafelman 1242018
#500991
Austin Dunbar 1291776 wrote:Ross I've never used shared cockpit, but do you have to set up a MP server with shared cockpit or just use the b observer mode on VPilot?

vPilot itself doesn't facilitate the actual sharing of cockpits - that's up to 3rd party software/add-ons. The vPilot change was simply to allow a copilot using an already-shared cockpit to connect to VATSIM in a way that wouldn't cause a duplicated target on ATC scopes.