By Tommi Karkkainen 1322309
#504422 I thought I'd fly to EDDF, but had to pick another destination since I couldn't find proper charts. I know of the Vatsim Germany site that does have a complete set of charts for the airport. Unfortunately, these charts are from 2014 and I can't quite believe that the procedures wouldn't have changed at EDDF in two years. Or that EDDT charts from 2010 would still be valid.

So I tried my other method: googling "germany AIP". I think I found the official "AIS Portal" but even there couldn't find where the actual charts are.

Am I missing something here, or is the only way to fly in Germany (apart from the airports with recent charts in Vatsim Germany website) to buy a charts subscription?
By Andreas Fuchs 810809
#504426 Hi Tommi,

we draw all our charts ourselves and we normally keep our charts up to date. If there is no MAJOR change, then there will be no update, since VATSIM does not replicate all real world procedures/frequencies in all details. Crucial navigational information will be updated as soon as possible, but it is not always possible, because this is a hobby. At the moment there should be no discrepancies that will harm your enjoyment, that's why the last update is from 2014. Our ground charts generally do NOT reflect the latest situation in the real world, but rather the different versions of freeware and payware sceneries that are on the market.

If you would like to compare the charts to their real world counterparts, you can sign up with Eurocontrol for free: ... x.php.html

Register for "EAD Basic" on the right hand side of the page. Once logged in, select "Enter Application", then "PAMS Light [AIP]". You will then be able to select your country of choice and the type of AIP document you would like to open. For example select "Germany", then "Charts" (as AIP Type) and finally "AD" (Part, AD=Aerodromes). If you would like to search for charts of a specific airport, check mark "Advanced".
By Tommi Karkkainen 1322309
#504429 Thanks for your reply, Andreas.

I did kind of figure out that the charts on the Vatsim Germany site are drawn by the Vatsim Germany people, and it is a very valuable job. It's a very good idea that you have ground charts actually depicting typical sceneries.

I was wondering what you consider to be a major change. If a SID route remains roughly the same, but the SID identifier changes, would this trigger an update? Because I think I encountered something like this in the past not so long ago. It was weird to find a procedure on the FMC which wasn't on the charts. I can't remember where this happened, though.

Also, thank you very much for the Eurocontrol link. Signed up and bookmarked. This is a very good database of information. For flying online, would you recommend flying according to the official charts or the ones on Vatsim Germany? In other words, which ones will ATC be using? Or will it simply not matter 99,9% of the time?
By Andreas Fuchs 810809
#504431 Yes, if the identifier of an SID changes, it will trigger a new chart. If an obstacle on a chart causes an update in the real world AIP, we will rather safe the work. As I mentioned, only crucial and navigational updates will be considered, so you can almost always expect our local charts to be in synch with what you get on your AIRACs. I think that this is a fair compromise.

As a consequence you can use either or. I think that our charts are more user-friendly than those in the AIP. There SHOULD be no discrepancies between AIP and local charts, so you can safely use ours.

We only started drawing them many, many years ago, because of copyrights! We are not allowed to download and provide the charts from the AIP and it is not acceptable to ask our clients (=pilots) to register at EAD just to get some charts.
By Tommi Karkkainen 1322309
#504436 Thank you again, Andreas!

I think that our charts are more user-friendly than those in the AIP.

This is quite true.

and it is not acceptable to ask our clients (=pilots) to register at EAD just to get some charts.

This is very considerate and highly appreciated.