Air Traffic Controller Discussion With a Global Perspective
By Nicholas Bartolotta 912967
#38832 Yeah, in fact, I had no idea what the Range even was or how it was used until I saw this post...and I'm S3 :lol: :P
By Timothy Suckow 847603
#38900 ZHN (Honolulu) Center has now incorporated the range limitations into the online training. Even on Center, our border only exdends out to 330 miles. I usually have it set for 350.
By Daniel Roesen 939523
#38908 Which ain't a problem, as you won't have too many aircrafts in this range. Not the range determines
the network load, but the amount of aircraft position data that has to be relayed. A 600NM range
with 10 planes in it is less of a problem than a 5NM range on GND with 20 planes on the apron. As
such, it depends on the traffic in your range wether a choosen range is a problem or not. I could now
man EDDM TWR with a 600NM range and produce less load on the servers than today evening (local
time) with a 50NM range.

At least as far as I understand the server architecture and network protocol used. Please correct me
if I'm wrong.

Best regards,
Daniel
By Ross Carlson 887155
#38931 Technically speaking, you are correct Daniel, but the problem is controllers who have the range set higher than it needs to be for the position they are working. In that case, it doesn't matter if there is one plane at the far range or 100, you're wasting bandwidth. A GND controller simply doesn't need to see any planes beyond a few miles. Like Richard said, this is an education issue ... we need controllers to get used to checking their range every time they sign on, since it's very easy to go through a whole session on GND or TWR without even realising you have a 300 NM range set.
By Tom Meyer 944876
#38936 I agree Ross. I was flying last night, and was picking up TWR and GND of an airport that I was more then 300 miles away from. With the amount of planes I'm sure where in the sky, I can only imagine what kind of problems it might have or did cause.
By Keith Smith 879675
#38949
Tom Meyer 944876 wrote:I agree Ross. I was flying last night, and was picking up TWR and GND of an airport that I was more then 300 miles away from. With the amount of planes I'm sure where in the sky, I can only imagine what kind of problems it might have or did cause.


My understanding is that the controller's visibility settings have NO bearing on the distance from which aircraft will see that facility. The visibiilty setting in ASRC determines how far away a controller can see.
By Ross Carlson 887155
#38950
Keith Smith 879675 wrote:
Tom Meyer 944876 wrote:I agree Ross. I was flying last night, and was picking up TWR and GND of an airport that I was more then 300 miles away from. With the amount of planes I'm sure where in the sky, I can only imagine what kind of problems it might have or did cause.


My understanding is that the controller's visibility settings have NO bearing on the distance from which aircraft will see that facility. The visibiilty setting in ASRC determines how far away a controller can see.


Yeah, the visibility range that you set in the ASRC settings window only affects which aircraft position updates are sent to your computer, thus which aircraft show up on your scope. The range at which you show up on pilot's controller lists is hard-coded in the server and varies by station type. The user cannot control it.
By Tom Meyer 944876
#38951 Thanks guys. I wasn't aware of that. Guess you learn something new every day.

Although, that now leads to the question, why exactly does ground and tower go out so far? There really isn't any reason I should be seeing ORD ground and tower when I'm flying in western zone of ZKC. I realize it might be hard to program, I'm just curious now.
By Matthew Kreilein 881422
#40339 Lemme add another PLEA for this from my position.

I'm in charge of keeping our POF file up to date (for those of you who don't know, the POF file in ASRC defines position information, frequencies, etc. for ATC).

In the NY area we've got EWR/PHL/LGA/JFK that all need DEL/GND/TWR/DEP/and APP freqs.

We use real world sectorization so we've got 5 APP freqs for LaGuardia TRACON (EMPYR, HAARP, NOBBI, and FINAL app). Same deal for EWR/JFK/PHL. Multiple sectors.

Basically...I'm running out of frequencies!!!

PHL/EWR are separated by only 70 nm and both have a DEL freq of 118.85 so when you're DEL and have your "range" up to 100 nm and so does EWR DEL...SB3 isn't "smart" enough to figure out which 118.85 you want.

Our freq for Final App at KLGA is 134.90...that's also Cleveland Center's frequency. When CTR NEEDS that 400-600 nm range it bleeds over into KLGA and we had pilots calling LGA APP on 134.90 only to have an irritated Cleveland CTR tell him he was on the wrong freq (my apologies Cleveland). We've changed our KLGA Final App freq as we're NOT gonna ask Cleveland Center to change, but it can stilll get ugly...especially in the middle of a fly-in :D

Keeping that range appropriate SHOULD keep that from happening...right?
By Fred Clausen 810603
#40344
Matthew Kreilein 881422 wrote:Keeping that range appropriate SHOULD keep that from happening...right?


Simple answer is NOPE.

Your visibiity range has no bearing on how the planes see you. This has been explained by the server gurus here, but the quickest answer is your visibility range to pilots is calculated based on your position ID (center, approach, etc) and your visibility center. This stuff is not configurable by the end user, as the server forces the issue on their end.
By Joe Mifsud 928114
#40347 Last night TGIF came to DTW and all the controllers had their range settings set right. And we had no server crashes. That could have been the range settings or just the new servers but something helped!
By Nicholas Bartolotta 912967
#40352
Joe Mifsud 928114 wrote:Last night TGIF came to DTW and all the controllers had their range settings set right. And we had no server crashes. That could have been the range settings or just the new servers but something helped!


I was flying on the J146 to LGA, and I had a few Tower and Grounds from DTW even as I was passing near CLE...
By Ross Carlson 887155
#40357
Nicholas Bartolotta 912967 wrote:
Joe Mifsud 928114 wrote:Last night TGIF came to DTW and all the controllers had their range settings set right. And we had no server crashes. That could have been the range settings or just the new servers but something helped!


I was flying on the J146 to LGA, and I had a few Tower and Grounds from DTW even as I was passing near CLE...


Again, controller visibility range does not affect when you show up for pilots. It only affects the number of aircraft visible on the controller's scope, thus the amount of bandwidth the controller consumes.