[Norman Blackburn 870575]

- Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:32 pm #307480 Anthony,

The overlying restriction is the connection should be for a valid use. Whilst a person new to the hobby may consider using a higher range somebody in your position should be considering training on approach.

Anything other than this style of training connection wouldn't fit into the existing regulations.

Norman
VATSIM VP, Conflict Resolution

- Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:54 pm #307656 Good Point Norman

But to be correct I'm training for del/gnd/twr.

long story involing a transfer.

ZAU S-2, Major Certified
ZAU S-1 Mentor
(Disclaimer: the post above does not necessarily express the opinion or stance of ZAU or ZAUs training program, this view is made by me and me alone)

- Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:32 pm #309038 After all this I'm still trying to understand how far an OBSERVER can go: 200 / 250 / 300 / 350...
It should be defined here and at VATSIM because there is some issues about OBS range that go worldwide and without a rule about OBS range it's dificult to do the job.

Eduardo Passos
VATSIM Supervisor
VATBRZ Senior Controller

- Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:41 pm #309040

After all this I'm still trying to understand how far an OBSERVER can go: 200 / 250 / 300 / 350...
It should be defined here and at VATSIM because there is some issues about OBS range that go worldwide and without a rule about OBS range it's dificult to do the job.

Thought i read somewhere on Vatsim that a standard maximum OBS range is 150nm, going higher than that needed a reason. its mostly due to the bandwidth resources available.

Ramos

ZAB Instructor

[Norman Blackburn 870575]

- Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:09 pm #309051 Some folk are looking for more rules when we already have obs connections heavily restricted.

In short, a user shouldnt be looking at max range as a target to aim toward. They should be using a range which is appropriate to their connection.

Norman
VATSIM VP, Conflict Resolution

- Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:30 am #309640

Jonas, Didn't know Euroscope had that seems like it would be pretty cool.

But I am useing Vrc which is less complicated and more user friendly. (in my opinion)

I think Euroscope is very user friendly, as much as VRC, if not more.

On topic: It is true. Observers are heavily restricted. Once, I observed a lot, with a controller rating. I had a supervisor come up to me and tell me that I should control, as he had seen me observing on other days as well. I believe he talked to me twice. It was a very interesting situation, I then realized how supervisors react to observers, especially, as I was observing daily. I think observers do observe with ranges that are a little higher than they should be. I find in many places, observers may want to watch the whole airspace, but the centre of their visibility is at the edge of the airspace, or something to that, I think if they re-centre their visibility, 600nm of range would be necessary for maybe, very large airspaces, if there is an airspace that stretches 1200nm across. I think it would save precious bandwidth if observers, even CTR controllers were able to keep their visibility range 'as low as it could go,' to see what you need to see.

Jody Turner - I1
Toronto FIR - Facility Engineer

- Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:44 am #309707 Sorry Norman, but really I just can't find these heavily restrictions for OBS (at least in visibility range)
Point is, although an observer SHOULD mantain appropriate range (an OBS watching GND ops shouldn't have more than 20nm, he/she usually go higher - sometimes 300nm) most use 300nm, some 400nm (and these ones sometimes trying to argue that their mentor just said this range was allowed).
So what I think should be done is a NOTAM from VATSIM estabilishing the top range for OBS because without a clear rule about OBS range there will be always issues with observers.
Unfortunately, while Michael Zazula was trying to get new ideas about CoC, I really didn't say put in writing it should be nice to have an article about ranges. If so it would be very very nice, because there are some controllers that inisist in a higher range than the allowed one. Some tell that they "forgot" to change it since the last ocupied position was "above" the present one, but some always are on the same position.

Eduardo Passos
VATSIM Supervisor
VATBRZ Senior Controller

- Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:15 pm #311508 [quote="Norman Blackburn 870575"]Some folk are looking for more rules when we already have obs connections heavily restricted.
quote]
Hay Noeman, i have try to find it on VATSIM web site, but with no success.
Please provide me a link to OBS range restriction

Thanks in advance.

Izik Bakshi
VATIL Online Day - Just fly!
http://www.vatil.org.il/fly/

[Norman Blackburn 870575]

- Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:50 pm #311588 Guys,

Supervisors are already well versed on this very topic.

You won't find any such restriction. In simple terms users, no matter what their role, should take only what they need.

Norman
VATSIM VP, Conflict Resolution

- Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:15 pm #315042 I don't know if people with extra high vis ranges are VATSIM's biggest problem. I created a php script that shows ever controller with a vis set to high (http://nyfc.site90.net/VatsimPHP/VatsimPHP/badvis.php) and currently there are only 3 people on that list, the most I have ever seen is 8. I think a bigger problem is pilots / controllers with an inactive connection.

- Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:40 am #315126 Isn't it that pilots (at least using FSInn) can adjust their visual range, too?
So if all would turn up to 150NM this would produce high bandwidth, multiplied by 7 (as this is the usual pilots:controllers ratio at VATSIM).

We ask pilots at events to minimize their visibility - for the sake of FPS on their systems, to prevent FS crashs and maybe this also relieves the servers?

- Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:29 pm #315147

Isn't it that pilots (at least using FSInn) can adjust their visual range, too?
So if all would turn up to 150NM this would produce high bandwidth, multiplied by 7 (as this is the usual pilots:controllers ratio at VATSIM).

We ask pilots at events to minimize their visibility - for the sake of FPS on their systems, to prevent FS crashs and maybe this also relieves the servers?

It's been a while since I looked at the code, but I believe the vis range for pilots is hard coded in the server. If FSInn allows you to change it, perhaps that's only for when you connect with FSInn in observer mode. (Which actually connects you as a controller, not a pilot.) Not entirely sure, though.

Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy
Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC

- Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:42 pm #315150 its the multiplayer range mode i think hes talkin about.

that have any effect on the servers? i can see how the range effects them on the controller side, but on the pilots side you cant see aircraft beyond 15 - 20nm, you can barely see them at that range but theyre there. beyond that point i think FS doesnt draw them at all

- Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:07 pm #315151

its the multiplayer range mode i think hes talkin about.

that have any effect on the servers? i can see how the range effects them on the controller side, but on the pilots side you cant see aircraft beyond 15 - 20nm, you can barely see them at that range but theyre there. beyond that point i think FS doesnt draw them at all

The multiplayer range mode does not affect the servers at all. That range just determines whether or not the pilot software will add the aircraft to the current multiplayer session, when it gets a position update from the server.

In short, there is no way for a range setting in the pilot software to affect the bandwidth consumption of a pilot connection. (There are non-range-related settings that DO affect bandwidth, such as the high frequency position updates in SB.)

Developer: vPilot, VRC, vSTARS, vERAM, VAT-Spy
Senior Controller, Boston Virtual ARTCC

- Fri Aug 28, 2009 7:38 pm #315190 The multiplayer range setting provides info on all acft, spd/alt and hdg in the set range. If more pilots with higher range are querying the server, then doesn't it use more bandwidth? I agree with Ernesto that you cannot see the plane, actually FS9 only shows 10 miles and FSX will show it a little farther out, but FSInn Rad shows upto 120 miles, just the data.