Air Traffic Controller Discussion With a Global Perspective
By Ross Carlson 887155
#515415 I definitely remember that there was a time where the last digit mattered and controllers had to standardize on using a zero instead of a 5 (or maybe vice versa?) so that clients could connect. I don't know how long ago it was or which clients required it.

I'm not sure about XSB.
By Simon Kelsey 810049
#515419 It definitely did used to matter in the days of Pro Controller and SB: pilot clients could only see xxx.xx (and assume a 0 as the last digit) but the network was aware of all three digits and so if you set the frequency in Pro Controller to xxx.xx5 nobody would be able to tune to you.

I imagine it is probably still the case with the legacy clients like FSINN, SB, XSB etc.
By Dace Nicmane 1313735
#515422 Controllers are still using 0. I was somewhat suspicious about the frequency ending in 5 because it looked different, so I tried it both ways, with 5 and 0 on my radio. Neither worked. Anyway, it's very easy to check. All that is needed is a pilot and a controller.
By Daniel Hawton 876594
#515428
Simon Kelsey 810049 wrote:It definitely did used to matter in the days of Pro Controller and SB: pilot clients could only see xxx.xx (and assume a 0 as the last digit) but the network was aware of all three digits and so if you set the frequency in Pro Controller to xxx.xx5 nobody would be able to tune to you.

I imagine it is probably still the case with the legacy clients like FSINN, SB, XSB etc.


I remember having this issue ~2011 as well.. pilots reported they were unable to get on my frequency when I used xxx.xx5 and as soon as I swapped over to xxx.xx0 all was well. Likely still an issue with non-vPilot clients.
By Michael Pike 812012
#515577
Ross Carlson 887155 wrote:
Norman Blackburn 870575 wrote:The trailing digit makes no difference. Whilst I know you say text wasn't working I am pretty confident that is not possible.


That's true of vPilot, but doesn't the last digit matter for one (or more?) of the legacy clients?

News to me too. In the UK, our positions list (distributed in Euroscope's extended sector file) all frequencies end in zero. If you connect with a 5 at the end, ES won't recognise the ATC position (because it's defined with a zero). We've always trained students to use the zero because 'some legacy clients' need it. This is confusing of course because we say the 5 at the end in 'contact' instructions for realism.

Mike
By Morten Jelle 1012739
#515645
Michael Pike 812012 wrote:News to me too. In the UK, our positions list (distributed in Euroscope's extended sector file) all frequencies end in zero. If you connect with a 5 at the end, ES won't recognise the ATC position (because it's defined with a zero)


That should be because of the setup in the sectorfiles - not the frequency list. To my knowledge we will still have to use the zero, as that's limited to the default FS setup, we have. I can't speak for XPlane, but the default aircrafts of FS would still only have 2 decimals.
By Michael Pike 812012
#515736 Exactly. I'd like to be able to redo the sectorfile with frequencies ending in 5 instead of 0 to remove the confusion. Norman appears to be saying we could do that. The FS world has obviously moved on over the years. Is it true that the oldest pilot client/FS version that can still connect to the network will not fail to connect if controllers use for example 118.575 instead of 118.570?

Apologies if this is a slight tangent from the original subject but it is a cause of some misunderstanding in comms. A contact message sent by automatic text alias for example would have a zero at the end even though spoken with a five.
By Bradley Grafelman 1242018
#515737
Michael Pike 812012 wrote:Is it true that the oldest pilot client/FS version that can still connect to the network will not fail to connect if controllers use for example 118.575 instead of 118.570?

I believe it's not true. SB4, for example, would not tune a voice channel if the frequency ends in .xx5. I'm not sure how sending/receiving text messages on frequency works, as when I last tried it the only frequency available was an ATIS.
By Steven Perry 810054
#515741 Continuing the tangent (sorry OP)....

XSquawkbox had (maybe has?) a problem tuning the .025MHz frequencies as recently as 2016.

I have personally controlled a few XSquawkbox pilots who have been refused access to a certain ARTCC in VATUSA because they were unable to tune the correct frequency and ATC was unwilling to switch to any of the other 999999999 other possible frequencies, or light a separate text only frequency, or control via private message, or control via communication relay, or use lost comms procedures. :(
By Don Desfosse 1035677
#515744 Steven, I am aware of such an incident 2-3 years or so ago that I believed was resolved. Is your experience more recent? If so, I'd like to hear about it in much more detail. Via email, not on the forums, please.
By Steven Perry 810054
#515746 That was probably the same one. It was resolved for that instance I believe but the technical issue of XSB I think might still exist.

The problem has reoccurred since then infrequently and without much undue delay to the pilot. So long as it's not FNO, things get sorted out reasonably well.

If anyone is interested in logging all such instances where pilots are spun or otherwise inconvenienced due to the frequency thing, I can start doing so. My usual airspace borders more than one ARTCC that use the .025MHz step and we also have a handful of less frequently used .025 frequencies internally.
By Dace Nicmane 1313735
#515757
Michael Pike 812012 wrote:Is it true that the oldest pilot client/FS version that can still connect to the network will not fail to connect if controllers use for example 118.575 instead of 118.570?

The problem I described happened during the last CTP Westbound. So no, we can't connect to a frequency ending in 5. And yes, it's confusing, because the controller says 5, but you have to tune 0. But you get used to it. I don't remember what the exact XSB messages were, whether it appeared to connect or said it couldn't or nothing at all. If anyone wants to do an experiment, I'm free for the next 10 hours or so, unless I'm flying.
By Andrew Morkunas 1017951
#515845 There is a piece of software I keep in my ATC toolbox, Roger Wilco. EuroScope is the only ATC client that shows who is connected to your voice channel. For other ATC clients I use Roger Wilco. The current VATSIM voice servers use a recoded version of Roger Wilco (hence the rw. at he beginning of many voice server addresses). You can use Roger Wilco to see who is connected on your voice channel as well as monitor the channel itself. So when I have a pilot that is not responding to my voice instructions I just turn up the volume on Roger Wilco to monitor my transmission. If I can hear myself I know it's not me. Roger Wilco is still available for download https://www.fileplanet.com/57176/50000/fileinfo/Roger-Wilco-Mark-I