Air Traffic Controller Discussion With a Global Perspective
By Richard Quigley 885897
#534108
Nestor Perez 1369273 wrote:...We should probably go back to the original topic and see if there's any other reasons for pilots disconnecting. This is something which affects many of us regularly when ATCing and it might help to understand the reasons behind it ;)

I think that there are probably as many reasons why this happens as there are pilots who do it.
Primarily it is lack of mental preparation. SOME pilots are not sufficiently prepared to handle their aircraft and to concentrate on reacting to ATC directions.
SOME controllers are not prepared to distinguish between simply keeping aircraft from damaging each others paintwork and strict regulation and conforming to procedures.
SOME pilots appear not to have read Expectations and Requirements for Pilots. https://www.vatsim.net/pilot-resource-centre/vatsim-basics/expectations-and-requirements-pilots
Now, to be fair, Arthur likely knows how to fly his aircraft of choice. In fact he has likely more flying experience than most controllers have controlling experience. Nevertheless, he has not contributed to the discussion other than to say he "feels" that ATC are "over intrusive" and that they are "the voice of doom". It is apparent that his RAF service (for which I thank him) did not involve flying. I would really like to hear his reasons for flying on an on line network expressly established to provide ATC to Pilot interaction.
Everyone is not "against Arthur" as Nestor, trying to pour oil on troubled waters, says.
But we would like to hear his reasons for eschewing ATC on a network whose prime raison d'être is to provide, as far as is possible in a purely volunteer organization, Air Traffic Control services.
By Arthur Melton 1092578
#534122 In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft. Aircraft using an FMC is pretty close to this . When I entered this discussion I didn't think that there would be so many biased people as controllers but then in the ATC section of the forum what should I expect .Sometimes in the early hours I switch on Vatspy and see many aircraft in the bottom half of the world ,I wonder why as many of these members are from the USA or Europe and there are not any controllers down here. As for me I fly in the Pacific ,Russia or Africa so as not to be bothered by intrusive controllers who I consider most of the time do not need to contact an aircraft .
You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better. Thanks for all your comments ,Lara3
By Magnus Meese 997444
#534124
In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft

This is nonsensical for both VATSIM and real life.

Why do you use VATSIM, a network specifically created for ATC-pilot interaction, when you only want the pilot side? It's not that we don't want you here, we just don't understand the reasoning for using this network when other multiplayer setups / AI traffic usage would be far better for non-ATC simming.

Keep in mind that disconnecting upon recieving a contact-me is more than likely making the ATC feel bad, especially if they are quite new to the network and excited to get traffic.
By Dhruv Kalra 878508
#534127
Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:As for me I fly in the Pacific ,Russia or Africa so as not to be bothered by intrusive controllers who I consider most of the time do not need to contact an aircraft .
You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better. Thanks for all your comments ,Lara3

I’m sorry my desire to provide ATC Services impinges on your desire to be antisocial on a multiplayer network. Seriously, why do you bother connecting to VATSIM in the first place, then?
By Andreas Fuchs 810809
#534133 Arthur, your comments and behaviour are not appreciated, nor here, nor on the network. Since most VATSIM-members are really passionate about VATSIM's intention: providing and receiving ATC-services. Maybe you should just stop connecting to VATSIM to avoid all those "intrusive controllers". I don't even know what you consider "intrusive"... I can only guess it and I find your behaviour on the forum and on the network highly insulting to other members who are investing a lot of time and effort to get to the level that they are on.
By Johnny Coughlan 861497
#534134
Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft.


When did you join VATSIM and begin flying?, 2009?, sorry to burst your bubble but this was not the 'beginning'.

I joined in 2003(which was still not the 'beginning') and there was plenty of both, maybe not in your part of the world but thankfully the world doesn't revolve around you.

Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:When I entered this discussion I didn't think that there would be so many biased people as controllers but then in the ATC section of the forum what should I expect .


People won't always agree with your point of view, don't try hide your frustration behind an accusation of bias.

Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:Sometimes in the early hours I switch on Vatspy and see many aircraft in the bottom half of the world ,I wonder why as many of these members are from the USA or Europe and there are not any controllers down here


Don't wonder too hard, people have varying work shifts, personal lives, personal prefences of scenery purchases, there is usually a miriade of reasons non of which may reflect on anything you might be insinuating.

Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:As for me I fly in the Pacific ,Russia or Africa so as not to be bothered by intrusive controllers who I consider most of the time do not need to contact an aircraft .


Arthur is classic example of the systemic problem VATSIM faces where pilots can just sign up, log on and use the network other than what is was created for(a place for pilots and ATC to activly interact with each other). He goes out of his was so not to interact with 'intrusive controllers'.

Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better.


We have and we will.

Don't forget to upgrade your pilot client as FSInn will be decommisioned from use on the network soon, don't want to you miss out.

Happy flighting :D .
By Orjan Polman 1440764
#534141 As a fairly new pilot on Vatsim, my online flights could be counted on one hand I think...
I still get a little startled when I receive the private message from a controller, asking me "please contact me on xxx.xx".
But that's because I'm new & nervous :lol:
How that can be intrusive I don't know, never felt it like that.
And personally, that's why I connect in the first place. To interact with ATC.

To each their own I guess, but I really appreciate it if a controller can be "bothered" to contact me; being on the ground before/while taxing, or when airborne.
That's the only way I can get better at flying online, so I am not disconnecting anything.
And I have really become fascinated by this excellent way to learn more and expand this great hobby! :D
By Richard Quigley 885897
#534147
Arthur Melton 1092578 wrote:
You controllers carry on you are doing a good job for those who use you but if I am on approach I shall switch you off, you should know better.

Why don't you try Pilot Edge https://www.pilotedge.net/?
By Joseph Jucha 1343412
#534148
Orjan Polman 1440764 wrote:To each their own I guess, but I really appreciate it if a controller can be "bothered" to contact me; being on the ground before/while taxing, or when airborne.

Orjan, believe me there are loads of us , given the time, that love helping people get a solid start. When you set up at an airport look at your client to make sure there is no controller online before you taxi/take off. If there is call them, don't wait for a call me now, you will get your clearance and instructions. That is on the ground.
In the air it's a bit trickier, Take a look at the vatsim pilot's resource page for help on when to call and what information they will be looking for.
Have fun and enjoy the learning!
By Andrew Ogden 1336925
#534149
Orjan Polman 1440764 wrote:As a fairly new pilot on Vatsim, my online flights could be counted on one hand I think...
I still get a little startled when I receive the private message from a controller, asking me "please contact me on xxx.xx".
But that's because I'm new & nervous :lol:
How that can be intrusive I don't know, never felt it like that.
And personally, that's why I connect in the first place. To interact with ATC.

To each their own I guess, but I really appreciate it if a controller can be "bothered" to contact me; being on the ground before/while taxing, or when airborne.
That's the only way I can get better at flying online, so I am not disconnecting anything.
And I have really become fascinated by this excellent way to learn more and expand this great hobby! :D

Thank you Orjan for your perspective as a new pilot. To me, this is a perfect example of what this network was intended for; the active interaction between ATC and pilots, as well as being a friendly environment where everyone can learn from their mistakes and hone their skills as a virtual pilot/controller. For those that want to use this platform for anything else, that's their loss as far as I can see. They are missing out on an incredibly unique experience.
By Daniel Morris 1132365
#534152 Arthur simply wishes to fly with other people, without atc, I would recommend connecting to the network on swift as an observer, in this way he won't have to interact with any services at the same time not impeding others.

Going back to the chap who replied to my post, a personalised friendly contact me is perfect, if you can make it sound welcoming; the newbie may be less startled, I encourage it.
By Nick Saffari 1423316
#534163 Thanks for all the responses! I do agree that the contact me should be a little more friendly. Also it's not a bad thing to receive one. We are just letting you know to get on our frequency. Anyway thanks a lot for the responses. I loved reading them.
By Nick Saffari 1423316
#534164
Magnus Meese 997444 wrote:
In the beginning there were pilots and no controllers now its getting to the state were there are controllers and a diminishing amount of pilots either through pilots switching off or pilotless aircraft

This is nonsensical for both VATSIM and real life.

Why do you use VATSIM, a network specifically created for ATC-pilot interaction, when you only want the pilot side? It's not that we don't want you here, we just don't understand the reasoning for using this network when other multiplayer setups / AI traffic usage would be far better for non-ATC simming.

Keep in mind that disconnecting upon recieving a contact-me is more than likely making the ATC feel bad, especially if they are quite new to the network and excited to get traffic.

Agreed, part of the fun is you coming in to fly. When you leave it's sad because it's one less aircraft to control.
By Andreas Fuchs 810809
#534165 A few members may make a mistake by taking communication too personal. "Contact me on frequency xxx.xxx" is not unfriendly at all, it's simply a more or less standard way to bring a message across. Pilot-ATC-communication should be based on facts and not on emotions, courtesy is the last thing that a controller/pilot should think about. The main thing that you need to observe is "am I bringing my intended message across?". That's the way. Of course, nobody will punish you if you prefer sending out a "Please make contact on frequency xxx.xxx", if you think that it won't scare off pilots.
By Orjan Polman 1440764
#534170
Joseph Jucha 1343412 wrote:Orjan, believe me there are loads of us , given the time, that love helping people get a solid start. When you set up at an airport look at your client to make sure there is no controller online before you taxi/take off. If there is call them, don't wait for a call me now, you will get your clearance and instructions. That is on the ground.
In the air it's a bit trickier, Take a look at the vatsim pilot's resource page for help on when to call and what information they will be looking for.
Have fun and enjoy the learning!

I know you are, and I have had the pleasure to get both patience and help from controllers.
That's partly why I always make contact on ground, if there is someone online.
When entering a controlled sector I also make contact, but sometimes they beat me to it.. :wink:
I actually did a lot of reading on the pilot resource page, before even thinking of connecting.
But it never hurts to brush up on that info, thanks for reminding me!

Andrew Ogden 1336925 wrote:Thank you Orjan for your perspective as a new pilot. To me, this is a perfect example of what this network was intended for; the active interaction between ATC and pilots, as well as being a friendly environment where everyone can learn from their mistakes and hone their skills as a virtual pilot/controller. For those that want to use this platform for anything else, that's their loss as far as I can see. They are missing out on an incredibly unique experience.

Glad to share Andrew!
I have only met friendly controllers, and it is really encouraging me to keep at it and keep learning.
People sure are missing out, if they don't want to interact.... For me it's an adrenalin rush like nothing else!
Specially at events, I joined the Kai Tak event last Saturday...
You should have seen me; sweating and shivering behind the yoke, trying to keep up with things :mrgreen:
But it went quite well, and it's the most fun I've had with my clothes on!

Cheers!