By Alex Long 891981
#521020 So as I've searched the community, I've found that there is scattered sources of data for updating VATSPY. Is there a way to establish some sort of central location for people to update their files? There seems to be many people who have independently made attempts to maintain data, but one single location doesn't appear to have gained traction and to become a main source of data. India VACC seems to be on a good track and has a github source for the file, and would be a great way for each Division and FIR/ARTCC to submit their updates (https://github.com/IndiavACC/VAT-Spy-Da ... pdate-2018). I'm aware of the new client that's come out, but VATSPY is far from EOL and still a valuable client. Anyone have thoughts on how to manage a central source of this data that can maybe gain traction with VATSIM to at least become an easily find-able source to manage data?
By Don Desfosse 1035677
#521029 Yes. I have an idea. Someone stand up and say, "VATSpy is too valuable for the community to be let go. I will stand up and volunteer to maintain VATSpy on behalf of the community. I will manage the github to which people can push updates, and I will take requests for updates and volunteer to manage them and push them. And should I need to step back in the future, I will give a one month notice to the community to allow someone else to step up after me." Christoph was very generous to manage updates on behalf of the community for so long, and there have been several others who have actively helped. We are grateful for their contributions. Now it's time for someone else to step up. Who's ready?
By Ross Carlson 887155
#521035 If someone commits to maintaining the data, I will commit to updating VATSpy such that it pulls the data from the source automatically so that it is disseminated to the membership without each person having to manually download and install.
By Alex Long 891981
#521038
Don Desfosse 1035677 wrote:Yes. I have an idea. Someone stand up and say, "VATSpy is too valuable for the community to be let go. I will stand up and volunteer to maintain VATSpy on behalf of the community. I will manage the github to which people can push updates, and I will take requests for updates and volunteer to manage them and push them. And should I need to step back in the future, I will give a one month notice to the community to allow someone else to step up after me." Christoph was very generous to manage updates on behalf of the community for so long, and there have been several others who have actively helped. We are grateful for their contributions. Now it's time for someone else to step up. Who's ready?


Don, I'm more than willing to take this on, but being the nature that we all do have lives outside of VATSIM, I'm hoping two to three other people step forward at first to as a team try and keep this data current. I feel instead of the project changing hands every so often it would be a good idea to have a team of people that can keep one central project maintained so when one person gets busy, there's a team of people who can step in to help. I'm then hoping that it'll gain traction with Regions, Divisions, and FIRs/ARTCCs to contribute to one single source of data that is available to the community instead of scattered sources of data. My main reason for making this post was to also start a discussion within the community and if someone knows of a better way to maintain the data in one place and to collect the data, I'm all for discussing and finding a way that'll work well.

Ross Carlson 887155 wrote:If someone commits to maintaining the data, I will commit to updating VATSpy such that it pulls the data from the source automatically so that it is disseminated to the membership without each person having to manually download and install.


Ross, you have my attention. This was a key piece of the puzzle I was trying to find a good way to work out. I'll be in touch via PM to discuss this.
By Alex Long 891981
#521050 After discussions with Ross Carlson, and a few volunteers coming forward, Caribbean Division (VATCAR) has officially taken on responsibility of future VAT-Spy updates. URL for this project is http://vatspy.vatcar.org/.
By Brodie Murdoch 1306312
#521084 I think this is a great idea although it would need to be restricted down a bit in terms of information and data going into VATSPY. At the end of the day ARTCC/VACC/Divisions do have the final say in terms on what they want and don't want to display and it should ONLY be the Director or the Airspace Operations Director of the ARTCC/VACC/Division who are allowed to introduce update and remove information and data from VATSPY per how they manage the info in their area/s unless permission has been granted from them for someone else to do it. Because the last thing that we need in someone who doesn't know how the division/VACC and who hasn't gotten permission to add information which is not based on what the specific ARTCC/VACC/Division uses.

E.g. Adding a position like a sector for enroute which is used in RL but not in VATSIM
By Brodie Murdoch 1306312
#521085 But then saying that. This would really only work if everyone is onboard as ARTCC/VACC/Divisons still have the right to do there own updates on their behalf and doing 2 separate updates would cause confusion for the community
By Alex Long 891981
#521086
Brodie Murdoch 1306312 wrote:I think this is a great idea although it would need to be restricted down a bit in terms of information and data going into VATSPY. At the end of the day ARTCC/VACC/Divisions do have the final say in terms on what they want and don't want to display and it should ONLY be the Director or the Airspace Operations Director of the ARTCC/VACC/Division who are allowed to introduce update and remove information and data from VATSPY per how they manage the info in their area/s unless permission has been granted from them for someone else to do it. Because the last thing that we need in someone who doesn't know how the division/VACC and who hasn't gotten permission to add information which is not based on what the specific ARTCC/VACC/Division uses.

E.g. Adding a position like a sector for enroute which is used in RL but not in VATSIM


Brodie, we're going to be taking steps with each ARTCC/VACC/FIR/Division to ensure those who are making the updates are those who are authorized to do so. It wont be a "free for all" method when it comes to updating. We will not be adding data or removing data on our own. Data will only be altered when it has been specifically requested to be altered by authorized staff of the ARTCC/VACC/FIR/Division, or is altered using an authorized account of the ARTCC/VACC/FIR/Division. The updates will be made directly by the ARTCC/VACC/FIR/Division, or, if they are unable to make the update themselves due to not understanding how the file structure works, or how to make the changes on their own, they can email us directly from their VATSIM staff email address and request the change and our staff can make the changes for them. The reasons we have an approval method is one, due to if the data is incorrectly entered, it can cause a compile error when VAT-Spy starts and the program wont function, and two, to ensure the changes are being made by authorized staff of the ARTCC/VACC/FIR/Division.

In terms of centralizing the data, Ross has mentioned this...

Ross Carlson 887155 wrote:If someone commits to maintaining the data, I will commit to updating VATSpy such that it pulls the data from the source automatically so that it is disseminated to the membership without each person having to manually download and install.


Which reading directly from his statement and expanding slightly, centralizing this data in one place, which is what we're doing, will allow Ross to update VAT-Spy and it will automatically pull these changes directly into VAT-Spy each time the application loads, meaning the user no longer has to manually seek out these updates and copy and paste them in. With the application functioning in this manner, it will require one central source location for the membership to make changes to the data it is pulling, which is what this project is taking the steps to do. I've spoken directly with Ross about this and he has agreed to work with us as the source of centralizing the data.
By Christoph Reule 1379750
#521100 Alex,

if you are in direct contact with Ross, can you ask him to implement sub-sectorization of FIR/ARTCC airspace based on callsign patterns (taken directly from the "to-do" list on http://www1.metacraft.com/VATSpy/)? This will solve many outstanding issues and directly provide more possibilities with VATSpy data.
By Lindsey Wiebe 1101951
#521103 I don't want to detract from this constructive discussion but I want to say HOW RELIEVED I am to hear the train is back on the tracks. I tried to use the "new one" but I just can't, I gave it a good effort... but just... no. So went back to VatSpy as it really does work and works well. Thank you Alex for churning up the discussion, Ross for once again supporting (willing to update) your fantastic work, Christoph for supplying the updates before hand and stepping up again with helping hand, Don for opening the upper management door to the process, and VatCarib for hosting. I'm looking forward to the future of VatSpy. :D