Pilot Discussion With a Global Perspective
By Felix Urbasik 1336798
#517620 I've done way over 20 shared cockpit flights now in X-Plane. And I've seen everything from controllers being okay with it, over controllers yelling at me, to controllers calling supervisors to tell me that one of us has to disconnect.

Seriously. What's the deal here? Right now I'm not even sure if shared cockpit is allowed anymore on VATSIM. Because I have to argue with people and beg them to let us fly almost every single time. Someone tell me. Tell me what to do here.

And don't tell me to use observer mode. XSquawkBox doesn't have it. It just flat out does not have it. So either you'll see two aircraft which - as I said - some controllers are totally okay with, or you'll see nothing at all.

I just want a definitve answer here, is shared cockpit allowed for X-Plane users? If yes, how should I do it without getting yelled at me? And if no, then you can just as well strike X-Plane from the list of supported platforms. Good luck with that.
By Andreas Fuchs 810809
#517623 Hi Felix,

I do understand your frustration, absolutely. Tell me, whenever a SUP was summoned, did he tell you or the controller off? And: if you ever get in the situation that an ATCO asks you to cut the shared connection, please call a SUP to get it straightened out. It is not your concern when an ATCO does not know how to handle this situation.
By Felix Urbasik 1336798
#517624 Thank you for your reply.

Most controllers are okay with it once I explain what we're doing and why we can't use observer mode. Is seems to be okay as long as one of the aircraft is on squawk mode standby.

But once, first the controller and then the supervisor he called both instructed me to cut the second connection. We ended up both disconnecting bescause we were upset.

I'd just like to know who did something wrong here. If they made a mistake, I can live with that. If I did, tell me what the rules are here. Sometimes I wish I had a "Approval of Shared Cockpit Operation" or something that I could hold right up to their nose. 8)
By Ryan Geckler 1104849
#517625
Felix Urbasik 1336798 wrote:Most controllers are okay with it once I explain what we're doing and why we can't use observer mode. Is seems to be okay as long as one of the aircraft is on squawk mode standby.




Why can't you use observer mode?
By Don Desfosse 1035677
#517626
Ryan Geckler 1104849 wrote:
Felix Urbasik 1336798 wrote:Most controllers are okay with it once I explain what we're doing and why we can't use observer mode. Is seems to be okay as long as one of the aircraft is on squawk mode standby.


Why can't you use observer mode?


The OP stated that XSB doesn't offer observer mode. I also just went on their documentation page, and there's no mention of the feature there. And according to the forums, users have been requesting the feature for over 1.5 years with no response from the developer.

I agree with the others that the "second pilot" should ensure his transponder is set to standby, the second pilot (or maybe both pilots) should file remarks in his flight plan (even though controllers are not required to read flight plan remarks), and if ATC or Supervisors challenge the OP, my suggestion would simply be to state that they are flying shared cockpit, XSB doesn't support observer mode, so this is the only way they can do it, and refer them to this thread for more information if necessary. Not perfect, but probably the best he can do until XSB decides to develop an Observer mode and/or until swift comes out.
By Felix Urbasik 1336798
#517630 I'm a programmer myself, at this point I'd even implement observer mode myself in XSB. But it looks like it's just a matter of time until Swift is ready to use on the network, which solves all problems.

It's nice to hear some support from you all. At least I can be sure that it's allowed inside german airspace :D
By Andreas Fuchs 810809
#517631 It's allowed anywhere at VATSIM, as VATSIM permits shared cockpit flights. If ATC objects to your mode of operation (shared cockpit in SQ STBY), ask them to call a SUP and refer them to this thread or to the VP SUPs.
By Magnus Meese 997444
#517634
Felix Urbasik 1336798 wrote:it looks like it's just a matter of time until Swift is ready to use on the network

While I have a lot of respect for developers making sure their product is sound, I have to point out that it's been 4 years and "a matter of time" can be, while true, somewhat misleading :wink: