SIM server: action delays

[Mark Jansen]

Hi Gergely,

 

First of all, thank you for the new version. It greatly enhances the experience.

 

After some testing with the built-in simulator, we found out that there is a random delay of anything between 8 and 22 seconds before simulated aircraft actually start turning, climbing or descending, regardless of the "DELAY" option in the excersice TXT file. Even if we set this to a value of "DELAY:0:0" or remove this command line at all, we did not find the respond time different from what we had seen before. It seems like the DELAY command line is omitted and the simulator listens to a built-in random response delay. Is this a bug?

 

Also, the handoff accept button that is used to handoff a simulated plane to a simulated controller, does not seem to work.

 

We used the Sweatbox server for our tests.

 

Thank you for looking into this matter.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark Jansen / Dutch VACC

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

No this is not a bug, but a feature. It is hard coded delays in the simulator, as every pilot in real reacts with different speed.

About the Hand-off it should work if the ese file is done correctly. Can you send me the sct/ese and scenery file at xumepoc(_at_)abv(_dot_)bg to test it myself.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

That is described under http://www.euroscope.hu/mediawiki/index.php?title=Scenario_File#Route_Description including the possible delays. It clearly states that 0:0 is not possible.

[Mark Jansen]

For approach radar vectoring excersises, a delay of 12-17 seconds is definately not workable. When ATC gives a final vector to intercept the ILS, a pilot will immideately select the [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned heading and press the respective key on the MCP/FCP. It should take a maximum of 5 seconds and even that is a long time.

 

Why is there is there a configurable DELAY-command if it's not used for this purpose anyway?

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Go read the wiki, and then rethink your last post ... you even get the direct link to the description, and still you don't read it.

[Danny Huizinga 955927]

The wiki says that an minimum delay for 1 second and maximum of 2 second should be possible. We think that a maximum of 3 seconds delay is workable. So, we tried to run the scenario with the following values: DELAY:1:3. Even then the responce time in the sim is much longer. How is that possible? Yes, I read the wiki.

[Mark Jansen]

According to my interpretation the wiki says that if the DELAY line is omitted, it works with a standard random delay of 12 to 17 seconds. As Danny (previous post) wrote, we tested with different settings but no setting seemed to alter the default values.

 

And besides, you're not answering the question. The real point is that it's not logical to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume a 12-17 second delay for all phases of flight. To make the simulator usable for approach excersices, the delay definately has to be reduced. The DELAY command line caters for this, right? Tell me where I'm wrong. I don't mind that this random delay has been chosen as a standard, but the DELAY command line should cater for user requested pilot delays, right?

 

If we get this whole thing wrong, maybe the manual isn't clear enough on the subject.

 

Thanks for looking into it!

[Mark Jansen]

Anyone, please? I'd just like to know whether this is a bug that will be fixed in the next version or it is a feature that will not be changed. In the latter case, the built-in simulator has to be considered useless for approach/radar vectoring exercises, at least as fas as the Dutch VACC is concerned.

 

Please let us know. Gergely, how do you see this?

[Hans Utne 813128]

When on vectors for final, I would think most (if not all) pilots will follow any corrective instructions immediately, and not wait 12-17 seconds for changes in heading etc.

 

Must admit I fully support Mark on this, default 12-17 cannot be used as a general setting.

[Todor Atanasov 878664]

I can confirm that even if you type 1:2 it still takes 12 seconds till the plane make the action.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

According to my interpretation the wiki says that if the DELAY line is omitted, it works with a standard random delay of 12 to 17 seconds. As Danny (previous post) wrote, we tested with different settings but no setting seemed to alter the default values.

Then it is a bug that it is not working anymore. But that is not what you wrote. So it will be looked into for 3.1b.

And besides, you're not answering the question. The real point is that it's not logical to [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume a 12-17 second delay for all phases of flight. To make the simulator usable for approach excersices, the delay definately has to be reduced. The DELAY command line caters for this, right? Tell me where I'm wrong. I don't mind that this random delay has been chosen as a standard, but the DELAY command line should cater for user requested pilot delays, right?

Of course there can be different situation were other delays might be necessary. That's why they can be specified by the user. The simulator does not know if you are just performing an approach run or what you are doing. If 12-17 seconds is an average delay for reaction, then it is a basis for the sim to start. Maybe it is possible to make also the default delay configurable by the scenario file ... however if you use ASE to create a file, I don't see the real benefit in having one default configuration value above just adding the delay to every plane. Maybe that would be more an option for ASE to setup a default DELAY value.

 

I changed the wiki to match the wording in single and multi line definition, as the two kinds of delays in the single line definition might be disturbing. Now it is "START" for the delay in the beginning of the simulation until an aircraft appears, and "DELAY" for the piloting delay.

[Michael Pike]

I believe ASE does have a default value (min 3 max 7 from memory). I would recommend using ASE to create scenario files. ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming this bug gets fixed of course.)

[Gergely Csernak]

I found that there is a bug in the DELAY line interpretation. It reads the min delay correctly, but the max delay from a random position. Therefore it is most likely set to 30 seconds. Therefore the average value is about 15 seconds. I have fixed it and the fix will be available with the upcoming patch.

 

Meanwhile use original the $ROUTE line. The delay values from that line are interpreted correctly.

[Cathal Butler 1137700]

I found that there is a bug in the DELAY line interpretation. It reads the min delay correctly, but the max delay from a random position. Therefore it is most likely set to 30 seconds. Therefore the average value is about 15 seconds. I have fixed it and the fix will be available with the upcoming patch.

 

Meanwhile use original the $ROUTE line. The delay values from that line are interpreted correctly.

 

Hello.

I'm a bit confused :S

What is this built in simulator software you're using?

 

Thanks

[Danny Huizinga 955927]

You can all read about it in this topic: http://www.euroscope.hu/mediawiki/index.php?title=Built_In_Simulator

[Danny Huizinga 955927]

Meanwhile use original the $ROUTE line. The delay values from that line are interpreted correctly.

 

Hello Gergely,

 

You're correct that the line in $route is working correctly. I changed the following lines

 

@N:AZA108:1000:1:51.791974:3.952707:7000:250:0:0:0
$FPAZA108:*A:I:A320:446:LIRF:0000:0000:38000:EHAM:00:00:0:0:EHRD:/v/:GISPA UL50 ELB UM729 MOLUS UN853 DIK UM624 BUB UG120 HELEN
$ROUTE:RIVER SPL
DELAY:2:3

 

into

 

@N:AZA108:1000:1:51.791974:3.952707:7000:250:0:0:0
$FPAZA108:*A:I:A320:446:LIRF:0000:0000:38000:EHAM:00:00:0:0:EHRD:/v/:GISPA UL50 ELB UM729 MOLUS UN853 DIK UM624 BUB UG120 HELEN
$ROUTE:AZA108:RIVER SPL:0:2:3

 

The delay is now between 2 and 3 seconds, but it takes a lot of time to change every aircraft like this way.

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

You won't have to do that, if you can wait for bug-fix release that should be out within a reasonable amount of time. There will not be any new features in that release, so it will be out once we feel that most bugs have been found and as much as possible of them were fixed. That should be better for the majority of users than to release a bug fix version too soon and have more bugs discovered during the following next development step, which will then again be a longer beta Periode before the next public release.

[Thomas Purbs 943647]

Another problem to the delay action:

The status text above the route field follows the delay time, and is not displaying the activated command (cleared ILS, holding, taxiing etc.).

 

As the steering trainer in heavy action sims you immediate need to see what you have done, and don´t have any time to execute the command many times, when you are not sure that you already did it.

 

Please let the display of the executed command be atcual every time in the simulation.

[Gergely Csernak]

I will check it. As far as I remember I have the code to display the pending status. In this way it may be a bug.

[Gergely Csernak]

Fixed. It will be available in the patch.

[Thomas Purbs 943647]

That´s great, another time thank you for all your work!