GRP v.2 and Eurocontrol

[Torben Andersen]

After implementation of GRPv2 the highest rating required for control is C1 (GRPv2 §4.4). How will this be implemented to EUROCENTER vACC, who have been restricted to C3s in the past?

 

yours

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Hmmm, good question.

 

Try getting in contact with Mike Sweeney

[Johan Grauers]

I'd also like to know the answer to that. Torben could you post the answer from mike here or ask him to make a reply on the forums rather then using PM or email?

[Daniel Eamon Brennan]

As per GRP v2, I'm under the impression that to open a Eurocontrol Centre position, as it is a "special centre" it requires a 'validation', so, my guess is either as a C1 you might(?) need an OTS check as a C1, otherwise my other [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umption is the C3 rating.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Even under the C3 rules, I think that a little OTS, or some sort of mini check ride was required.... but I don't actually know if thats true.

[Gunnar Lindahl]

I'm sure Mike will see this and make a detailed reply, however as all the Eurocontrol sectors are designated as special centers in the GRP docomeent, C1s would require a validation before controlling any of these positions, which is more than logical.

 

Before GRP 2.0, Eurocontrol was a C3 position; as the new policy implies this is no longer possible, I [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume that steps are being taken to rework this and that Mike will have news soon.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi guys,

 

the rating "Senior Controller C3" still exists and is awarded to selected individuals. I don't know whether EUC VACC will change its policy about the required rating.

E. Senior Controller (C3)

 

A Senior Controller (C3) rating may be awarded to a controller already certified to provide the six (6) standard VATSIM controller services described above AND who also provides other services NOT related to a control role covered by the ratings for: DEL, GND, TWR, APP, DEP or CTR. The rating of Senior Controller (C3) may be awarded by any VATSIM Division to give recognition of seniority, performance or any additional role beyond that of a normal Controller (C1) as determined by the local Region/Division.

[Torben Andersen]

I my opinion, as C3 is no longer a rating for an exam, but a rating to be awarded to you, and the words of GRPv2 §4.4 in mind, the rules of EUROVACC can't stand as stated today. However, I am absolutely sure - and agrees on - that UIR controlling needs an OTS. But it would be of interest for me, and probably others with a C1 rating, to know the future policy for controlling UIR.

[Andreas Fuchs]

Hi Torben,

 

I disagree. EUC VACC is a special unit. We do not have any departments, most importantly, no training department. That's why we wanted to make sure that only really experienced people join us because we do not have the capacity to do any training. We need to make sure that those interested in manning a position of EUC VACC, are able to read and absorb our "manuals" and job-descriptions by themselves. Naturally we do answer questions on our forum and every now and then we have new joiners sit and watch us more expierenced guys controlling a sector. So, without a training department we cannot perform OTS', it is as simple as this.

 

Now, I am not Mike and he might change rules and allow C1's to join us, it is his call. But then we will need to have some kind of hour-requirement, because we cannot and will not train anyone. This is the most important thing that you need to know in order to understand this strict rule here.

[Sebastien Bartosz]

Oh, so when people wish to join the Euc vACC, they do not go through any type of formation whatsoever before logging on.

 

Ok, makes sense now. (For those who took that the wrong way, it was not a sarcastic comment..)

[Pedro Diogo 985361]

As far as I'm aware, this updated version of GRP will not affect EUC VACC.

 

And, no, there is no OTS for EUC positions, hence there not being a Training Department, or any department at all really.

[Torben Andersen]

4.4 No control position on VATSIM will require a rating higher than Enroute Controller (C1) in order to provide Air Traffic Control services.

 

I my view the statement from GRPv2 §4.4 is pretty clear. I will naturally adhere to any requirement imposed by EUROVACC, but I take it EUROVACC is a part of VATSIM and it is a control position. I must be missing something here.

 

yours

[Pedro Diogo 985361]

1 E. Senior Controller (C3)

A Senior Controller (C3) rating may be awarded to a controller already certified to provide the

six (6) standard VATSIM controller services described above AND who also provides other

services NOT related to a control role covered by the ratings for: DEL, GND, TWR, APP,

DEP or CTR. The rating of Senior Controller (C3) may be awarded by any VATSIM Division

to give recognition of seniority, performance or any additional role beyond that of a normal

Controller (C1) as determined by the local Region/Division.

 

Eucontrol is a SPECIAL VACC and provides a service which is not in any way similar to those provided at FIR level, thus requiring controllers to have a "role beyond that of a normal C1". This is however my view on it.

 

I have alerted the appropriate staff to this topic and I'm sure they will be glad to reply once they're in pocession of the full facts. Maybe a post in the GRP forum above will also help.

 

Regards,

[Pedro Diogo 985361]

I my opinion, as C3 is no longer a rating for an exam, but a rating to be awarded to you

 

Hi again - sorry I missed this: how the C3 rating will be "awarded" is something that is being looked at divisionally and VACCs will have the opportunity to provide some input I'm sure.

 

Hope I haven't missed anything else I want to reply to

[Mike Sweeney]

The section of the new GRP which relates to the EuroControl VACC reads as follows:

Special Center: In an exceptional situation that is justified either by the relative traffic volume or by

relative high airspace complexity or size, it may be necessary for a division to create a designated

“Special Center”. A designated “Special Center” should be an exception; being established only

where justified and considered to be in the best interest of on-line users.

A. A “Special Center” can only be activated by an Enroute Controller who is also the holder of an

endorsement for that “Special Center”. A non-endorsed Enroute Controller is NOT permitted to

activate or operate a “Special Center” airspace.

In Appendix B, the EuroControl sectors are listed as "Special Centers". Although the EUC VACC website has not yet been fully updated, the EUC VACC website provides answers to many questions, along with helpful information about EuroControl in VATSIM.

 

If interested to apply for visiting controller status, or a member has a specific question, it's more appropriate to do that via the email address provided on the EUC VACC website, than to make the application via this public forum. We'll get the answers to anyone who has an interest and needs more information.

 

Thanks. http://euc-vacc.org/

[Torben Andersen]

If interested to apply for visiting controller status, or a member has a specific question, it's more appropriate to do that via the email address provided on the EUC VACC website, than to make the application via this public forum. We'll get the answers to anyone who has an interest and needs more information.

 

The point here is not related to an actual application - an application I can not make to EUR VACC as long as their policy remains as outlined on the homepage. This relates to - in my view - new situation, due to the GRP. It therefore has a general interest as such and not only to me personally.

 

yours

[Mike Sweeney]

GRPv2 §4.4. No control position on VATSIM will require a rating higher than Enroute Controller (C1) in order to provide Air Traffic Control services.

.. the EUC VACC website has not yet been fully updated.

[Edit] website now updated

If interested to apply for visiting controller status, ... do that via the email address provided on the EUC VACC website.

Hope this helps.

Edited January 6, 2010 at 08:17 PM by Guest

[Torben Andersen]

Thank you

[Kyprianos Biris]

Purely for communications reasons I recommend to all to discuss issues regarding GRP in the newly created dedicated forum:

viewforum.php?f=110