Jason Baxter 920557 Posted March 1, 2010 at 04:58 AM Posted March 1, 2010 at 04:58 AM I fly out of ATL every once in a while, usually in something /A. However I hear ATC clear planes "RNAV to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] runway 27R cleared for take off". I never figured out what ATC meant by that, was it a change to the clearance limit meaning go only to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] or did it mean to go direct to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts]? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Caffey Posted March 1, 2010 at 08:04 AM Posted March 1, 2010 at 08:04 AM I fly out of ATL every once in a while, usually in something /A. However I hear ATC clear planes "RNAV to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] runway 27R cleared for take off". I never figured out what ATC meant by that, was it a change to the clearance limit meaning go only to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] or did it mean to go direct to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts]? The only time I've heard of it is with the (fairly new) RNAV Profile Departures. Apparently instead of giving a heading, tower tells departures to "RNAV to [first fix], wind calm, runway 27L cleared for takeoff". Once APP gets them, all they have to say is "Climb via the [name] departure. Personally I think tower could skip the "RNAV to" bit, after all on normal Pilot Nav SIDs we don't say "Proceed direct [fix], blah blah cleared for takeoff". We expect pilots to fly the SID they were cleared on, but that's another discussion.. http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/1002/00320STADM.PDF Take the STADM1 out of PHL, it has crossing restrictions (like a profile arrival, but in reverse) STADM at or above 4200, IGGLE at/above 6000, then PHLYR, and either SIXXR or FILLZ at/above 9000 (This is one of those ones where the waypoints are funny if you're familiar with the area ) Here's a video talking about this new stuff: Steven Caffey (SY) ZLA Controller "A mile of highway gets you one mile, but a mile of runway can take you anywhere." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benton Wilmes Posted March 1, 2010 at 05:30 PM Posted March 1, 2010 at 05:30 PM They do it because they have had too many instances of pilots plugging in the wrong runway in their FMC. So when they get airbourne, they would fly to another fix (possibly the other runways) and create a conflict. Basically, this is how they verify your first waypoint on the departure. If they say RNAV to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and you don't have MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] as that first waypoint, you know you have to double check something. There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Benton Wilmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Baxter 920557 Posted March 1, 2010 at 06:57 PM Author Posted March 1, 2010 at 06:57 PM Oh, I didn't know what they meant...hopefully everyone else checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott DeWoody Posted March 2, 2010 at 03:34 AM Posted March 2, 2010 at 03:34 AM They do it because they have had too many instances of pilots plugging in the wrong runway in their FMC. So when they get airbourne, they would fly to another fix (possibly the other runways) and create a conflict. Basically, this is how they verify your first waypoint on the departure. If they say RNAV to MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and you don't have MP[Mod - Happy Thoughts] as that first waypoint, you know you have to double check something. Yeah, I get it, but if they plugged in the wrong runway, what's to say when they get that clearance, they'll even check for the first waypoint. Most would just read it back, hit the throttles, and as soon as they are airborne hit the autopilot and go make themselves a sandwich. * Most = those that plugged in the wrong runway to beging with. Scott DeWoody CEO - American Virtual Airlines joinava dot org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benton Wilmes Posted March 2, 2010 at 02:33 PM Posted March 2, 2010 at 02:33 PM Yeah, I get it, but if they plugged in the wrong runway, what's to say when they get that clearance, they'll even check for the first waypoint. Most would just read it back, hit the throttles, and as soon as they are airborne hit the autopilot and go make themselves a sandwich. * Most = those that plugged in the wrong runway to beging with. I agree. From what I remember being told by one of their controllers, its basically the only time they are told what RNAV to fly over a voice frequency (clearances are all PDC so no voice). It's more like a cover your butt scenario with the FAA as now they have it on tape that you agreed to fly to a waypoint. If you end up going to a different one, that's a pilot deviation now and the pilot [Mod - Happy Thoughts]umes a lot of the responsibility for whatever happens for his error. They used to use headings instead and departure would tell you to proceed direct whatever fix and join the departure but they finally switched back to this version as tower frequencies have more room for those radio transmissions than an already busy departure controller. There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. Benton Wilmes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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