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London Heathrow - A plea to pilots


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a procedures manual detailing EVERYTHING needed to know about approach into EGLL and departure from EGLL

 

 

My suggection is to purchase Jeppseen Jepview disc with the latest charts.

 

For UK and Eire alone thats € 369.00 or in proper money £252.78!

 

Jepview is really for airlines and aircraft operator, not for VATSIM users, use AIS and/or the eurocontrol AIP for them, and they are all FREE!

 

Cheers

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  • 3 weeks later...
I would like to make a plea to pilots intending, or in some cases attempting, to fly into OR out of London Heathrow.

 

I know, sad to quote myself, but it is still valid....

 

Today saw a new low in the respect of pilots who could not even fly their aircraft; all of whom were controlled as best we could and advised to consult the prc.

 

"What's an ILS" has to be my quote of the day...

Although, "How do I tell what heading I am flying" comes a very close second...

 

Regards,

Gareth

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 months later...

I am reasonably new to VATSIM and find the whole experiance very realistic. (or at least what I imagine to be realisitc).

 

On the whole, I have found everyone to professional with a few exceptions.

 

Although I am new to VATSIM, I hav been flying with FS for about 2 years. I did the virtual training and exams given on FS2002 to FS2004 and progressed to ATP. I found the training manual by Rod Machado (sorry if I got the name wrong) very interesting and an enjoyable read. This tought me the basics of navigation, how to read charts etc. and the training tought me how to handle an aircraft.

 

I would never have dreamed of flying on vatsim if I could not fly or navigate approaches etc. for fear of making myself look rather silly.

 

All FS pilot have the training available to them yet it seems to be ignored by some people that either think it cool to cause havock in the skies or love to annoy other people or perhaps [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume they know it all.

 

As someone said ealier in this thread, if you wouldn't do it in real life - don't do it on VATSIM. The vast majority os pilots and ATC takeVATSIM very seriously and we don't want it spoiled by the few.

 

So please, if you cant fly or navigate do the training. I promise you will find it more enjoyable getting it right. No-one expects perfection 100% of the time (we all make mistakes).

 

Happy flying

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  • 3 months later...

An idea

Hi all, I'm the new guy, hopefully, if all goes well, I'll be logging into my first session soon. I'm still very "scared" and I don't want to screw up anyones flights. I got a few questions tho'.

 

I read the post about heathrow being super busy, and pilots not following procedure etc etc, and screwing things up for long haul flights, and generally ruining peoples fun.... well, it's my understanding that there are military aircraft in this simulation, right?

 

And if a pilot doesn't follow procedure, is it not true that fighters are scrambled to intercept? Just to make sure? It would be pretty coo, if ATC's could call on some standby fighters to police the busy airways, and umm, maybe shoot down repeat offenders? (okay, maybe it's a bit much to shoot down repeat offenders, but you get the general idea!)

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Hi Angelis,

 

Maybe this is your attempt at humor (I'm not too good at detecting it sometimes), but two things you should know-

 

1) Please don't resurrect old threads, there's a reason no one has posted in them for awhile. Perhaps under some rare circomestances, it might be okay, but most of the time, it's better to start a new thread than to rez an old one.

 

2) Violent acts, hijacking, bombing, shooting airplanes, etc. are not allowed on VATSIM, so please get any notions of that sort of thing out of your head before logging in.

 

Welcome to VATSIM, we look forward to having another good controller and pilot in our virtual skies.

 

Oh, and please make sure to read http://www.vatsim.net/prc/

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I'm sorry - i didn't mean to offend, I was just looking at realism aspect. And I'm sorry for bringing back this old thread. Maybe, and admin could lock this thread, so that others do not make the mistake that I made.

 

Once again, I am sorry for offending you - I was thinking out loud, it was just an idea, testing the water so to speak

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It is quite alright Angelis! If you are interested in the military aspect may I suggest you check out the vUSN (Virtual United States Navy) at www.vusn.org. Great bunch of guys!

 

Tanner is much better at this than me. I should have pointed you toward the VSOA side of things. To be clear, you can fly sweet fighter jets, you just can't blow stuff up with them. Still fun though.

 

 

And I wasn't offended, Angelis, just giving you some friendly advice.

 

It's usually best not to dig up the past, that's why I was discouraging your posting in this old thread. Like I said, it's usually (but not always) better to start a new topic.

 

Want to fly military aircraft? Try out the vUSN, and other VSOA groups, too!

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  • 1 year later...

Sorry to kick this one back up again but, for some reason, we seem to have had another influx of pilots recently that qualify for a 'special' award.

 

I know the old adage that "The ones causing the problem aren't likely to read the forums" probably still holds true but at least some people do and might decide that a visit to the PRC, or some pre-acquired local knowledge, may be to their advantage.

 

Regards

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Gareth old chum - I've been giving this considerable thought recently and one off-the-wall idea sprang to mind. EGLL is so rarely manned and a lot of the "offenders" are repeat visitors (as you know). So with no control they've been "getting away with it" to the extent that maybe some of them think they're doing nothing wrong until the rare occasion that ATC is present. So, it occurred to me, if EGLL were manned a lot for a short period (maybe a month) with real HARD NOSED controlling to the extent that the idiots have a miserable time then maybe - a) They might go elsewhere and learn properly, b) EGLL gets a reputation as a tough nut to crack and puts the idiots off going there, c) The repeat offenders actually start to learn "you need to do it right" to fly here and thus improve.

 

If they have a hard time on each visit over a couple of weeks then maybe standards would start to improve since nobody would be "getting away with it" as they do with a lack of ATC? It'd just be a really tough job for the ATC boys for a while but the fruits may be worth it?

 

We'd love to do some special Heathrow pilot mentoring sessions but two things stand in the way: a) Those who need it most won't come and b) The variety of potential topics is M[Mod - Happy Thoughts]IVE and thus limits practicality. Also some of us pilot mentors don't know EGLL at all (see my comment at the start of this thread in 2005, it still holds true 3 years later!).

Bill Casey

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When pilots aren't given any training like ATC are, and are simply told to look at a website full of different articles on different topics, how can you expect them to know everything they should know? Its unfair to put so much pressure on pilots to meet the requirements of ATC, when the pilots aren't given any standard formal training by VATSIM to meet those requirements. Until this business of ATC having to meet very strict criteria to p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] written and practical exams in order to qualify to control certain positions and pilots are allowed to join and fly without any limitations stops, then there will always be an inbalance of standards between ATC and pilots.

 

I'm not justifying pilots flying into a busy airport like Heathrow without having done any bit of research on where they're flying into and expecting to be told by ATC how to fly their plane(they're everywhere, we get them in Dublin too), but the point I'm making is why are you so surprised to see it? Its always frustrating for me to get a pilot who hasn't a clue what hes doing when its a very busy because it only takes 1 pilot not having a clue to screw everything up for yeah. But I don't hold that to the pilot because its not their fault, its VATSIM's.

 

But of course VATSIM don't impose any restrictions on pilots because they're afraid they'll lose pilots to IVAO if they do, so its a no-win situation...

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But I don't hold that to the pilot because its not their fault, its VATSIM's.

 

Well Seamus, actually it IS their fault. The pilot students that I get are the ones who WANT to do it right. The ones Gareth is talking about are either those who a) Don't want to get it right or b) Know no better. A great many of us pilot types on this network DID learn it correctly by doing the homework but certainly if there'd been exams or tests or compulsory training when I joined then I would not have joined, plain simple fact. The other plain and simple fact is that having compulsory testing for pilots on here is just impossible, there are waaaay too many to make it practical. I've done the maths and it'd mean people like me (a UK Pilot Mentor) having to check out several new people every single day, no breaks, no fun. So, simply, I wouldn't do it, I'd quit and the network loses that way instead.

Bill Casey

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The most annoying one of them all is the Stepover, when Heathrow is busy. I had it doing circuits, someone decided to keep breaking in on when i started talking, When i stopped because it sounded mundle jumble, i attempted again and the pilot once again decided to stepover. So i gave up and waited. Is there anyway we can sort this out.

 

I have worked hard on teaching myself the basics for Heathrow, i also live locally so that does Help. But there is a big obsession with Pilots, that there first flight has to be done at Heathrow. It does not. I get it when Controlling Gatwick, god help when i get it at Heathrow. Some i give respect too they sit there and listen in then do a flight after a few hours.

 

Knowing Heathrow well, when i am given an instruction at the start of it, i know what they will tell me to do. So for Example... BAW278, Turn left 290* When Localizer Established, Descend ILS.

 

By the Point Turn, ill already be turning. Makes life easier for the Controllers and keeps it how they want it

 

The Big problem is it's the name, it draws pilots in like bee's in a nest. With a Bad Sting.

Regards,

Robbie

Qualified Private Pilot with @ London Biggin Hill Airport!

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Maybe there should be a "semi advanced new pilots night" at EGLL, this would end up being busy, but as well as a new pilots night, the atc were online to support a night then i believe this would work. pilots logging in are told to expect delays, but by the time the clearances and taxi instructions were handed out, everybody in the que would hopefuly have heard what is expected and it should be straight forward and it would hopefully go smoothly, if there were pilot mentors availible on TS or text to answer questions, I believe alot would be gained from 1 night of delays and large amounts of traffic. something to think about.

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Dave - it has been considered but see my post above about some limitations on its practicality. I just have no idea of what could practically be covered in an hour or two that would be of long-term benefit..... and of course it would only attract those that WANT to get it right rather than those that don't care. Howevwer, my jury is out on it, if something worthwhile could be achieved then it should be done.

 

Meanwhile... I'm just wondering why anyone would try and do circuits at Vatsim's busiest Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A airport

Bill Casey

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Meanwhile... I'm just wondering why anyone would try and do circuits at Vatsim's busiest Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A airport

 

Sadly it's my local and when there is full atc, every position that happens once in a bluemoon so i decided to get as much atc as possible. There was not much traffic compared to what Real World receives so the Circuit (IFR) was no problem. If there as much as what Real world handles on average such as 30-40 then ill stay away from that. But in the meantime

 

By the way, as i am quite an experienced vatsim pilot now. Many hours On PSS 777, Level D 767, SSTSIM Concorde, PMDG 747 and most of my flights in and out of LHR and would be happy to be a Pilot mentor for just Heathrow, help out here and there.

 

A Heathrow New Pilots Night seems good, however as i noticed on Sunday, most of those who regularly do there stuff were not there, they probably saw the Traffic and runned a mile.

 

Regards,

 

R...

Regards,

Robbie

Qualified Private Pilot with @ London Biggin Hill Airport!

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Hi Robbie

 

You dont have to be a Pilot Mentor to help someone fly out of London Heathrow... just offer your services... i'm sure you have a wide knowledge of the airport.. Pilot Mentoring is mainly aimed at New Pilots that are brand new to Vatsim or have not flew for some time and need a couple of refreshers...

With that in mind ''Heathrow New Pilots Night'' we are trying to attract new pilots not scare them away so the best option for a New Pilots Night is normally a quiet airport like Biggin Hill EGKB.. in my view it would'nt be pheasable to hold a New Pilots Night at a Cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] A airport due to various reasons, we wouldnt want to perform VFR Circuits there now would we..

Any ideas you have email the Pilot Mentor team you never know....

Matt Booker
VATSIM Senior Supervisor

 

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  • 2 months later...

hi I try and stay away from egll as I am not yet experanced enough to try and land there or take off there people forget it is one of the busiest airports in the world in real life and even in the virtual world i have listened to pilots and atc there no wonder atc are continually pulling there hair out why go there when there are other air ports that you could fly into or out of and get heaps of pratice in flying stars or sids eg eggp eidw to name of two all the charts are revant to that airport s are for free ??? mike

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  • 1 month later...

Rite Guys, I was wondering if we could start something up.

 

I am open to help pilots that wish to fly into and out of Heathrow, I need a good list 10+ though who wish to learn and ask any questions. I will go over everything about Heathrow as being it my local and my knowledge for this airport is very high, it should be anyway.

 

 

So those who wish to tag along, doesn't matter how many hours you have or experience in Flight Sim or Heathrow, if you want to learn and ask questions. Also this is NOT for controllers, I don't control there yet. But I 98% of the time fly from into and out of this Airport.

 

 

We will go in one of the discussion rooms on the VATSIM-UK Teamspeak, if thats Ok with VATSIM-UK and I am open to anything that I may know, if there is atc online and you wish to circle London with your LDS 767 etc, Ill be happy for any questions you have, But I wont fly your plane for you.

 

 

So if any of you guys wish to participate, please put your names down here, Ill talk to someone in VATSIM-UK about us using the VATSIM-UK Teamspeak for discussion, and Ill get back to you shortly.

 

Kindest Regards,

 

Robbie Garrett

Regards,

Robbie

Qualified Private Pilot with @ London Biggin Hill Airport!

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