VATEUD, rating C3

[GIORGIO Tresoldi]

Hi all,

In the VATEUD site I can see http://www.vateud.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97&Itemid=157

Senior Controller (C3) – “Under divisional review”

But why EUROTEST does still issue C3 theoricals exams? And what's happening? What will finally happen with this rating, needed to control EURM/S/E/W ?

[Pedro Diogo 985361]

Giorgio

 

The Senior Controller rating has just finished being reviewed and will be made public very soon.

 

HOWEVER, with GRP2 the minimum rating required for any position, including EUC vACC Sectors, is Controller (C1) - please refer to the appropriate section of the EUC vACC website - http://euc-vacc.org/member.htm

 

Regards

[GIORGIO Tresoldi]

A SENIOR CONTROLLER (C3) RATING MAY BE AWARDED TO A CONTROLLER ALREADY

CERTIFIED TO PROVIDE THE SIX (6) STANDARD VATSIM CONTROLLER SERVICES

DESCRIBED ABOVE AND WHO ALSO PROVIDES OTHER SERVICES NOT RELATED TO A

CONTROL ROLE COVERED BY THE RATINGS FOR: DEL, GND, TWR, APP, DEP OR CTR. THE

RATING OF SENIOR CONTROLLER (C3) MAY BE AWARDED BY ANY VATSIM DIVISION TO GIVE

RECOGNITION OF SENIORITY, PERFORMANCE OR ANY ADDITIONAL ROLE BEYOND THAT OF VATSIM

NORMAL CONTROLLER (C1) AS DETERMINED BY THE LOCAL REGION/DIVISION

 

IS this the change?

[Pedro Diogo 985361]

A SENIOR CONTROLLER (C3) RATING MAY BE AWARDED TO A CONTROLLER ALREADY

CERTIFIED TO PROVIDE THE SIX (6) STANDARD VATSIM CONTROLLER SERVICES

DESCRIBED ABOVE AND WHO ALSO PROVIDES OTHER SERVICES NOT RELATED TO A

CONTROL ROLE COVERED BY THE RATINGS FOR: DEL, GND, TWR, APP, DEP OR CTR. THE

RATING OF SENIOR CONTROLLER (C3) MAY BE AWARDED BY ANY VATSIM DIVISION TO GIVE

RECOGNITION OF SENIORITY, PERFORMANCE OR ANY ADDITIONAL ROLE BEYOND THAT OF VATSIM

NORMAL CONTROLLER (C1) AS DETERMINED BY THE LOCAL REGION/DIVISION

 

IS this the change?

 

See http://vateud.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97&Itemid=157

[Daniel Eamon Brennan]

Whist we're on the subject of this new C3 rating requirement(s)....

 

 

Can someone actually clarify what certain bits mean please?

 

1. Senior Controller (C3) rating is required in order to apply for and be accepted as a Senior Instructor (INS+) - does this mean if option [2] is taken, that we cannot progress to obtain the "Senior Instructor" bolt-on?

 

2. A Senior Controller (C3) rating is required in order for the optional “Roaming Permission” endorsement being granted - does this mean that if option [1] is taken, that you cannot be granted this 'Roaming' status by (a) vACC?

 

3. Can the candidate select if they wish to handle a well-packed Approach position for the examination, or, choose to control the Centre position for the duration of the examination?

 

4. How does this "Roaming" validation tie in with local vACC language based rules? For example, I have not applied to be a VC within VATSPA to undertake learning the procedures of "Barcelona Radar" because I don't speak, or write fluent Spanish or Catalonian. So, if the vACC has rules such as you must be able to speak X, Y and Z, and you per se do not speak Dutch, for example - does this mean that you cannot log onto Schipol Approach? Or if you do not speak German, can you not log onto one of the Langen Radars? If so, then isn't this policy a bit far-fetched?

 

5. "If the Candidate wishes to get a “Roaming Endorsement” the candidate can opt for the CPT to alternatively take place at a non-known and random Fir/vACC. In this case the CPT will take place at a non-known or random airport to be chosen randomly by the Local home vACC examiner and a VATEUD examiner giving 30 days notice from the date of the CPT. The candidate can submit a list of preferred CPT areas not to exceed 5 but there is no guarantee that the chosen CPT area will be amongst the wish list."

 

If a person can learn a foreign language in 30 days to an appropriate standard of a C3 exam, or, to even have a simple conversation with a few people at a meeting for example; then that person needs to have a "God" Rating!

 

Yes, ICAO might very well say that pilots and controllers are obliged to speak English - or some degree of, but this is VATSIM, I am not obliged to speak Dutch unless I want to control in the Netherlands.

 

If it is the case of VATEUD/Local vACC selecting an FIR for the C3, if the person is limited to one, perhaps stretching to two languages, then aren't the choices a bit limited? And thus, defeats the whole object of this policy? Not of testing the candidates skills of miraculously learning unfamiliar airspace and procedures to an acceptable standard which would warrant a C3 p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]; but this whole idea of being able to log on anywhere within VATEUD.

 

6. Also: "If local vACC Training Department is unable to arrange the CPT within a reasonable timeframe after having been requested to do so by the member, and upon the Theory Exam having been p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed successfully the member can opt to forego the local Examiner conducting the CPT at a known field and request that a VATEUD examiner steps in and conducts the CPT (whose evaluation will be final) at a randomly chosen Field, however Roaming endorsement will not be considered in this case."

 

7. What is a "reasonable timeframe"? My idea of "reasonable" might be very different for example, and I may feel that I was perhaps being penalised. And even more concerning to me is the fact that: "Roaming endorsement will not be considered in this case," does this mean that even though you have purposely gone out of your way to learn, and digest unfamiliar airspace and procedures, meet the criteria and p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] the examination, that you will not even be endorsed by this policy because of the absence of a local examiner? Does this not seem a little bit barmy?

 

Surely an INS or and INS+ or a long-time C3 VATEUD examiner would be able to see that you have demonstrated your ability to learn these new and unfamiliar procedures and operations in the absence of a local examiner?

 

8. Should a guide, or something similar to that not be written by vACCs for this purpose, i.e. a .pdf etc. of procedures and things to look out for and check the candidate does correctly if this circomestance should arise?

 

9. A return to point number 2, as I've written some-what a considerable amount since then, I shall refresh:

 

"2. A Senior Controller (C3) rating is required in order for the optional “Roaming Permission” endorsement being granted - does this mean that if option [1] is taken, that you cannot be granted this 'Roaming' status by (a) vACC?"

 

Take Johnny Billy-Mae who has p[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed both written and practical elements for option [1]. Johnny has already demonstrated that he can read and intrepret unfamiliar charts etc within the C3 theory test. So, my question is, why can't Johnny be granted this "Roaming" status if he has already demonstrated that he can do this as well as control to a high enough standard to warrant a C3 being awarded? Practical Skills I have found unless there is something vastly different, which I have yet to come across so far, remain fairly generic, so, what is the difference?

 

10. If it is the case of having a practical exam or something to that effect, why can't Johnny apply to all the vACCs he fancies doing a spot of controlling in, and just arrange for an OTS arranged 30 days after his original application? Because from reading this policy, Johnny should know what he is doing within 30 days.

 

 

This is all I can think of so far.

 

 

Yes, I realise that I am being highly critical - to help with improvement and clarification for other's benefits. But I cannot be the only one thinking along these lines...

 

Cheers,

 

 

Daniel.

[Peter Ingerslev Nielsen]

Daniel,

 

Please talk to your Irish vACC Director as he understands the concept perfectly. This topic was discussed to death in the VATEUD Staff forums for more than 45 days and the policy docomeent is the result of input, feedback and views of most vACC's in Europe, including those of Ireland.

Sorry but I am quite simply not going to start discussing the topic again and again in different forums.