Having trouble with an ESE file - hope someone can help

[Richard Webb 1097731]

Hi,

 

I hope I can explain this fully for someone to understand how to help me.

 

I am working on the ZAU chicago sectorfile and I think I understand the display: option and the borders. What I'm having trouble with is a circlesectorline option. I have one defined for ORD_TWR which works when I'm on Center or APP and TWR comes on, but it's also coming on when I'm on CTR and APP comes on. I believe it is because of the ownership priority setup of the sectors but I don't know how to fix it. Here is my setup:

 

First the Circle Def:

CIRCLE_SECTORLINE:ORD_TWR_VIS:KORD:6

DISPLAY:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_APP_SCT:CHI_APP_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_CTR_SCT:CHI_CTR_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

 

Then the Sector Defs - smallest first:

SECTOR:ORD_TWR_SCT:0:5000

OWNER:ON:R1:R2:R3:R4:R5:R6:R7:R8:R9:SE

BORDER:ORD_TWR_VIS

DEPAPT:KORD

ARRAPT:KORD

 

SECTOR:CHI_APP_SCT:0:13000

OWNER:R1:R2:R3:R4:R5:R6:R7:R8:R9:SE

BORDER:C90_TRACON_LINE_CORE

DEPAPT:68IS:82IS:K06C:K10C:K3CK:KARR:KC09:KC81:KDPA:KPWK:KUGN

ARRAPT:68IS:82IS:K06C:K10C:K3CK:KARR:KC09:KC81:KDPA:KPWK:KUGN

 

SECTOR:CHI_CTR_SCT:0:100000

OWNER:SE

BORDER:CHI_CTR_ZMP:CHI_CTR_ZOB:CHI_CTR_ZID:CHI_CTR_ZKC

DEPAPT:

ARRAPT:

 

Ok - so I've set up the ownership in priority order. ON is tower, the R's are APP and SE is center. So when I'm on Center and APP signs on, the APP boundaries light up along with the Tower Circle display.

 

Any ideas? I think it's because in the absense of a tower controller App owns the tower sector but I don't know how to fix that.

 

Thanks

-Rich

[Marvin Palmer]

Multi-ownership works well with adjasent sectors and not when they are overlapp. So i'd recommend the following:

 

With this rule...

Display: "I'm Signed on as" : "if he's looged on" : "and he's logged on"

 

Red line is why you see the towers...remove

 

First the Circle Def:

CIRCLE_SECTORLINE:ORD_TWR_VIS:KORD:6

DISPLAY:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_APP_SCT:CHI_APP_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_CTR_SCT:CHI_CTR_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

 

Then the Sector Defs - smallest first:

SECTOR:ORD_TWR_SCT:0:5000

OWNER:ON:R1:R2:R3:R4:R5:R6:R7:R8:R9:SE "Not necessary in red"

BORDER:ORD_TWR_VIS

DEPAPT:KORD

ARRAPT:KORD

 

 

 

That should get the towers from popping up when you are CTR.

 

 

Marvin

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Multi-ownership works well with adjasent sectors and not when they are overlapp. So i'd recommend the following:

 

With this rule...

Display: "I'm Signed on as" : "if he's looged on" : "and he's logged on"

 

Red line is why you see the towers...remove

 

First the Circle Def:

CIRCLE_SECTORLINE:ORD_TWR_VIS:KORD:6

DISPLAY:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_APP_SCT:CHI_APP_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_CTR_SCT:CHI_CTR_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

 

Then the Sector Defs - smallest first:

SECTOR:ORD_TWR_SCT:0:5000

OWNER:ON:R1:R2:R3:R4:R5:R6:R7:R8:R9:SE "Not necessary in red"

BORDER:ORD_TWR_VIS

DEPAPT:KORD

ARRAPT:KORD

 

 

 

That should get the towers from popping up when you are CTR.

 

 

Marvin

The DISPLAY part is correct, but the OWNERs need to stay, otherwise noone else than TWR would ever own the TWR area.

[Richard Webb 1097731]

Red line is why you see the towers...remove

 

First the Circle Def:

CIRCLE_SECTORLINE:ORD_TWR_VIS:KORD:6

DISPLAY:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_GND_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_APP_SCT:CHI_APP_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

DISPLAY:CHI_CTR_SCT:CHI_CTR_SCT:ORD_TWR_SCT

 

Thanks for the replies! Yes, I agree that the ownership needs to stay otherwise the departures list will not properly populate.

 

Problem is, if I take out the red line, when Center is on and APP is not, and Tower comes on, Center will not see the circle that Tower is on. My goal is to give a visual que that tower (or ground) has come online. I guess if I had any departures in my departure list for ORD they would disappear as tower came on, but there aren't always planes on the ground.

 

-Rich

[Marvin Palmer]

Good catch Stephen...I'm no expert at ES yet, just basing a lot of my answers from my trial and errors.

 

I did learn that if a smaller sector is within an a larger sector, the smaller sector does not need to be placed in the owner line (based on altitude settings of Zero) of the larger sector. The Owner line is great to define an area that two or more Controllers will use (Combined areas) An example is East approach and west approach. Build sectors for each APP and setup the owners so when East logs on, they control both areas, then when West logs on, they get their specific area to control...

 

Great program by the way, I've enjoyed the complexity of this radar client. But once you get past the setup of the ESE file (I call it the extension file) it operates almost independently...

 

I've learned, "Display:" is the graphic line that seperates two areas and coordinations "IS" needed.

 

Now I'm just rambling aren't I???

 

 

Rich does this help at all?

[Richard Webb 1097731]

I did learn that if a smaller sector is within an a larger sector, the smaller sector does not need to be placed in the owner line (based on altitude settings of Zero) of the larger sector. The Owner line is great to define an area that two or more Controllers will use (Combined areas) An example is East approach and west approach. Build sectors for each APP and setup the owners so when East logs on, they control both areas, then when West logs on, they get their specific area to control...

 

Marvin,

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding then... let's take our ARTCC as an example and only deal with Ohare airport. Right now I have Tower as being the smallest area (even though ground and clearance actually are, but I haven't defined those) so in the DEPAPT and ARRAPT lines, the TWR sector has KORD. Then the Owner is tower, then app, then center. So if center signs on, the departure list fills with aircraft from KORD. Then if APP signs on, the departure list for center clears out all the a/c from KORD and APP gets them. Then Tower signs on and the same happens. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?

 

Thanks

Rich

[Marvin Palmer]

Yes, as long as you have the airport defined in your sector, that's what will happen...

 

OWNER is who owns the area...if they overlap, whoever is in the owner line gets priority

 

Example: this is fictional

SECTOR:TWR_A:0:5000

OWNER:TR1

DEPAPT:KAAA

ARRAPT:KAAA

BORDER:SECT_TWR_A

 

SECTOR:APP_A:0:18000

OWNER:AP1

DEPAPT:KAAA

ARRAPT:KAAA

BORDER:SECT_APP_A

So

Approach is on and has control of KAAA....later on Tower logged on, because tower Sector name is on top, they get the data from KAAA and Approach doesn't...hence APP doesn't have visibility of the a/c until the hand-off. But you noticed that the OWNER only defines one person...

Now...

 

if you had two areas that are defined like: APP_E and APP_W

 

APP_E has priority over all area...

 

SECTOR:APP_W:0:18000

OWNER:APW:APE

DEPAPT:KAAB

ARRAPT:KAAB

BORDER:SECT_APP_W

 

SECTOR:APP_E:0:18000

OWNER:APE

DEPAPT:KAAA:KAAB

ARRAPT:KAAA:KAAB

BORDER:SECT_APP_E

 

You put East at the bottom (because of defined dep/arr airfields), and you define the owner in priority, SECTOR:APP_W has APW first, then APE

 

Does this confuse you even more??

 

 

 

 

Marvin

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

No, that's not correct. You are misunderstanding something:

 

You are referring to the concept of interlacing sectors. If you define TWR before APP before CTR you can define them without cutting out the holes for the smaller sectors. BUT you still need to define the owners for all sectors. In your example, where TWR is owned by TR1 and APP is owned by AP1, TWR will be considered UNICOM (!) when TWR is not online. AP1 will NOT take control over TWR.

 

And that's probably also Richard's problem. In the DISPLAY statement, you compare sectors, not controllers. So if CTR does not take control over APP, the TWR line will not light up if it is defined to display between TWR and APP. If everything is set correctly, CTR takes control over the APP sector, and the TWR/APP line will light up. You do not need an additional definition for TWR/CTR.

[Marvin Palmer]

Stephen, like I said...trial and error

 

I've been working on the Alaska area, and what I've described is working rather well. The only problems I've run into is Center ownership...our complexity is we have 5 areas [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned to different controllers...When 1 ctr is online, he controls the entire airspace, then when the second ctr logs on, it's split 50/50 and so on...my gnd, twr, app are not owned by center...I just make sure the dep/arr is listed in precedence, gnd before twr, etc. And if ANC_C20_CTR is online, then he controls all the airfields in the entire airspace Vertical limits are 0:61000.

When ANC_TWR logs in...all the a/c data is transferred down to TWR and the visual display of a red (default color) line appears.

 

 

Note: I'm working on ES v3.1d. and have nowhere near the experiance that the beta testers do, don't get me wrong....ESE files are a bear!!! But once it's configured...wow!

 

NOW....back to the original issue, tower display lines then logged in as Center...lol

 

is it fixed?

 

 

Marvin

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

I've been working on the Alaska area, and what I've described is working rather well.

That's not quite possible, because sectors don't have the major purpose of displaying the red line. They are mainly used for calculations, the red line is just a nice gimmick You should note that you need to fix the ownership part, and then correct it at some point. It is not a big issue for now, but it sounds like you are using ES more like VRC, so you probably haven't even figured out what other features there would be.

[Marvin Palmer]

Rich, were you able to resolve the issue ye?

[Richard Webb 1097731]

Yes, as long as you have the airport defined in your sector, that's what will happen...

 

OWNER is who owns the area...if they overlap, whoever is in the owner line gets priority

 

Example: this is fictional

SECTOR:TWR_A:0:5000

OWNER:TR1

DEPAPT:KAAA

ARRAPT:KAAA

BORDER:SECT_TWR_A

 

SECTOR:APP_A:0:18000

OWNER:AP1

DEPAPT:KAAA

ARRAPT:KAAA

BORDER:SECT_APP_A

So

Approach is on and has control of KAAA....later on Tower logged on, because tower Sector name is on top, they get the data from KAAA and Approach doesn't...hence APP doesn't have visibility of the a/c until the hand-off. But you noticed that the OWNER only defines one person...

Now...

 

Marvin,

I tried your setup on my sector file and it did not work. Here is an excerpt from my file:

 

SECTOR:ORD_TWR_SCT:0:5000
OWNER:ON
BORDER:ORD_TWR_VIS
DEPAPT:KORD
ARRAPT:KORD


SECTOR:CHI_APP_SCT:0:13000
OWNER:R1
BORDER:C90_TRACON_LINE_CORE
DEPAPT:KORD
ARRAPT:KORD

 

I then started up the simulator and made it so I could bring on the tower controller. When I sign onto my "student" station as APP and then tell the simulator to connect as TWR, the a/c in my departures list as APP do not disappear ([Mod - Happy Thoughts]uming that TWR now is in control of their sector)

 

I appreciate all the help.

 

Thanks

Rich

[Stephan Boerner 945550]

Ok, now I am confused. Are we still talking about the SECTORLINE issue or is that one solved and now we have an active airport problem?

 

You can send me you SCT and ESE to if you want, that's probably the easiest way ...

[Richard Webb 1097731]

Ok, now I am confused. Are we still talking about the SECTORLINE issue or is that one solved and now we have an active airport problem?

 

No, we still have a sectorline problem. It ties in with sector ownership though. To keep it simple, here's what I'm trying to accomplish:

 

If someone is on ctr and app comes on, I want the app boundaries to light up... likewise I have a circlesectorline that I would like to come on when Tower logs on. Because APP owns the tower sector when tower is not online, the circle shows up when app comes on even though tower is not on. (this is all viewed from the eyes of the ctr controller)

 

I will send the file over... it's almost 3am here so I'm going to send it later when I'm conscious. Besides with all the changes for testing I need to put it back the way I think it should be.

 

Thanks for the help!

Rich

[Richard Webb 1097731]

You can send me you SCT and ESE to if you want, that's probably the easiest way ...

 

Sent...

 

I sure hope you can make some sense of what I did there...

 

BTW if you use Notepad++ to edit it, you can create a user defined language to fold all the sections so it's easier to read. Just use the ;/ as the opening tag and ;* as the closing tag in the folder setup. That's what the ALT-0 is all about at the beginning of the ESE file.

 

Thanks

Rich

Edited June 6, 2010 at 10:57 PM by Guest

[David Saunders 818672]

or try a program called Code Browser, very good for sector files