ATC emerges right during final

[Christian Fenske 864551]

Hi,

 

Recently I experienced the following situation: During 5nm final (A/C fully configured to land) ATC emerged and asked me to contact him.

I did and he insisted in giving me the opposite runway direction for landing. The winds were close to 90° to the runway. Thus both would work.

Now, I refused to go around and logged myself off instead. This was why I did not want to disturb the ATC although there were no planes at all near by the aerodrome.

 

With the help of the VATSIM rules, what do I have to do in the situation? How would you react?

 

Finally, I dropped the ATC a short line and everything is fine between us, but still I want to know: What is the right way in case I do not want to go around.

 

Cheers Chris

Edited June 29, 2010 at 06:10 AM by Guest

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

actually controllers should know not to bother people when theyre on final, especially on short final if they just logged on.

 

if you are able to, great, but the controller definitely should not have tried to send you around when you were already setup, and ill [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ume no traffic was waiting at the other end?

[Johan Grauers]

I agree with Ernesto here that the controller should try to refrain from having you call up on short final. But then again maybe you should see it as a challange, so instead of breaking of approach fly a circling? Of course presuming that it's a condition that allows for a circle etc. But if you manage to pull of a circling approach in that situation then I think you've just proven you're a really good pilot and also after landing you can ask ATC why he wanted you to switch runways etc

 

Just an idea anyhow, and yeah also send a note to the vacc in question (most have feedback forms on their websites).

 

Anyhow I'm off to bed now, but it seems we all agree that ATC should've known better in this case (especially if it didn't really matter=no other traffic in the way).

[Christian Fenske 864551]

Thing is, we kindly figured out how to continue. Hence, I furthermore want to know ... will it be considered the wrong way to log off.

I mean, I do not want to break any Vatsim rules and thought, pilots are supposed to follow ATC, except for emergencies. Thus I logged of myself and continued

offline to the airport.

 

A SUP from my ACC told me, this is "definitely the wrong decision". I question this statement. Are there any rules for situations such as these?

 

Thanks

Chris

Edited June 29, 2010 at 06:10 AM by Guest

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

its not wrong or right. its just plain old common sense. you see a pilot on final after you signed on, leave'm alone, more then likely the pilot is going to be busy already. some controllers, especially the trainees tend to jump ahead of themselves sometimes. you wouldve been just fine had you waited to call after you cleared the runway. if the controller decides to take it out on you then just call a sup or leave feedback with theyre FIR/ARTCC, theyre trainers will take it up with the controller to make sure it doesnt happen again.

 

remember the addage, Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. that doesnt mean dont call the controller at all, just means once you can safely do that last part, then do it, until then, focus on the first two, especially on final.

 

same thing would happen if you were taking off and a controller signs on. they cant stop you from taking off already if you are already lined up, they need to just let you go and youll contact them once you are in the air and its safe to do so.

[Christian Fenske 864551]

well, that sound familiar. thanks for die advice. =)

[Wycliffe Barrett]

Hi

 

I think logging off was probably your wrong decision, personally would have landed and just said BAW1234 requesting taxi.

 

As has been said most controllers should know enough to just leave you alone until your down. Discconecting is actaully quite disconcerting for controllers as they will always wonder what happened.

 

This happened to me last night I had a some VFR traffic inbound, he was already under my control and had been for approx 30 miles he was approaching the airfieled and I had given hime his VFR entry route. clearly he was a new pilot as he struggled to read back the instruction which I gave him three times each time slower than the last.

 

There was plenty of track miles to run, he was after all only in a Cessna, don't for get i had been tracking this guy for the past 60 nm I could see his ineternet connection was stable.

 

Next thing POOF he disconnects, now as I said he was struggling to readback his clr and I had just typed it out for him when he disconnected.

 

He didn't bother to send me a private message after his discconection and now Ihave no idea whether he had information overload, couldn't hear me, (highly unlikely) lost his connection or just plain freaked out.

 

Whatever it was a note to let me know would be ok, he is probably thinking wow that is all to much infor I'm not doingthat again. It would have been so much easier if h had just sent me a text saying he was unsure what to do if that was the problem.

 

VATSIM is a learning environment and one thing I remember above evrything else is I was in that exact same position once myself.

 

So dont just disconnect, ask questions and we will all get along just fine.

 

Wycliffe

[Christian Fenske 864551]

No doubt about placing questions. I surely could have gone his way but I didn't want to as I was in a hurry and fully configured only 5nm out of the threshhold.

However, I of course dropped the ATC a short line and we just figured out, that he was just about to ask whether I'd like to proceed or could comply when I was logging off.

 

I was in a hurry, 'cause 5nm ain't that far in a B737.

 

Even with more than 1000 online hours, sometimes situations occure you have never had before. Thus: my question.

 

Well, my prob is solved nicely and professional and I thank you all.

 

Cheers

Chris

[Joshua Black]

Personally, this is a big pet peeve of mine. I am never thrilled when a controller decides to come on just as you are landing, and insists on you contacting them. If I am established, less than 1 minute from landing, and a controller asks me to contact them, if I am unable to do it quickly enough, I will land first, and then call for taxi. Reason for this is because I'm already announcing on unicom to any traffic in the area. If doing it correctly, they should already know I'm short final for runway XX and remain clear. If the controller doesn't like it, I would literally say "Tough", explain to them I didn't have time to call them, log off, and move on... and if I feel like it, maybe whip an email over to the director or whoever. Not to get the controller into trouble, rather so they can learn for the future, and the director can point this situation out to future students.

 

My personal opinion.

[Thomas George 827476]

There's not an explicit and comprehensive rule for every situation and sometimes we have to look towards common decency and respect. If someone has conducted an entire flight and positioned themselves to land and just before they land ATC comes online, ATC should appreciate that the pilot was there first and is not at a convenient point to change his plans and let current circomestances p[Mod - Happy Thoughts] before enforcing new operational requirements, be they runway allocations or whatever.

[Tom Uytterhoeven 1151895]

To give you an example,

 

I had a visit to Belgocontrol last friday (27/08/2010)..

 

What they do when the Runways are changed at brussels is:

 

Every plane that already has been put to 25R and 25L and is on final will still be allowed to land after the runway change.

 

After the last plane has landed on 25R or 25L then 02 is open en the first plane is already est on the ILS of 02, while the first plane is taxiing to 07R.

 

Hope this clears something out