Initial climb

[Mateusz Bor 1084929]

Hi, I'd love to do some online flying, however I'm a bit confused about the "initial climb" part of IFR clearance. Let's say that I want to depart from Gatwick, I ask for IFR clearance and I hear something like this: "cleared to XXXX via LAM4M initial climb 4000 ft, Squawk XXXX". Now, I can see in the SID that I should fly at or below 4000 ft through the first 3 waypoints and then I should climb to 5000 ft and then to 6000 ft. And here is my question ... if my initial climb is 4000 ft can I climb to 5000 ft where the SID indicates it or should I maintain 4000 ft until cleared by the controller to go higher?

Second question ... when I finish flying the SID and I don't get any clearance to go higher, should I request higher FL from the controler or can I fly to my crz alt on my own without asking anyone?

[Jason Baxter 920557]

No you must maintain your [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned altitude until instructed otherwise, though the procedural altitudes on the chart may say you need to climb ATC may be suerceding these altitudes for a number of reasons. When in doubt aks! There are some reasons you should object to the altitude such as weather, icing, minimum enroute altitudes and observed traffic. I'm pressed for time however I will add detail later.

[Ernesto Alvarez 818262]

another thing to remember, ATC instruction trumps whatever is on the chart.

 

what you were given was an initial climb restriction, which overrides any altitudes listed on the charts.

 

if you dont get that initial altitude on your clearance, then you know you'll climb as per the procedure.

 

another thing to remember for the STARS. even tho the chart may say "Cross XXX at 11000". that is not a clearance to descend. you must still get a clearance to start your descent (EG: American 123, Descend via the XXX Arrival)

 

also as mentioned earlier, ATC instructions overrides the procedure. so even tho the chart may say "Cross XXX at 11000". if ATC instead gives you a different descent instruction, that overrides the 11000ft on the chart until you are told to continue descending via the arrival

[David Saunders 818672]

Hi, I'd love to do some online flying, however I'm a bit confused about the "initial climb" part of IFR clearance. Let's say that I want to depart from Gatwick, I ask for IFR clearance and I hear something like this: "cleared to XXXX via LAM4M initial climb 4000 ft, Squawk XXXX". Now, I can see in the SID that I should fly at or below 4000 ft through the first 3 waypoints and then I should climb to 5000 ft and then to 6000 ft. And here is my question ... if my initial climb is 4000 ft can I climb to 5000 ft where the SID indicates it or should I maintain 4000 ft until cleared by the controller to go higher?

Second question ... when I finish flying the SID and I don't get any clearance to go higher, should I request higher FL from the controler or can I fly to my crz alt on my own without asking anyone?

 

 

Normally you would be given a clearance like "cleared to ******* on CLN8M sqk 1234" this is all the information that you require to fly the departure, normally you would fly the SID iaw the charts and jobs a good un.

 

BUT .....

 

1st, the reason why you were told 4000ft is basically basically because most pilots flying out dont use charts and dont adhere to altitude restrictions that are on charts, so Gatwick controllers will give you a level to climb to, this is because the close proximity to Heathrow and there departures,

 

2nd, if you are under ATC then dont climb/descend without authorisation from them,there is no need to ask for higher, they will be aware of you and will climb you when they are able due to traffic in your vicinity.

[Mateusz Bor 1084929]

Great, thanks everyone. Now I understand.

[Roland Collins 800023]

In controlled airspace ATC is responsible for the separation of aircraft therefore, whether climbing or descending, all levels are [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned by ATC.

 

The crossing restrictions on a chart or procedure allow a pilot to plan the climb or descent profile to ensure compliance AFTER a new level has been [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned

 

After receiving your clearance there may be a considerable delay before you actually takeoff. At takeoff the initial [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned altitude applies; it is your initial climb limit. This allows you to get airborne and climb BUT is designed to keep you below other traffic flows. This allows the radar controller to identify you and take account of the complete traffic scene before [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igning you a higher level; one which will have you climb through the other traffic. This technique is called "positive separation".

 

In well-designed airspace the SIDs and STARs generally provide the required separation of flows and a higher level is often immediately [Mod - Happy Thoughts]igned so that you have an uninterrupted climb. However; it may be that, due to traffic, further climb is delayed and the controller should advise when this happens;

 

[ATC] Qantas Five, Identified. Maintain 4000, expect further climb in one zero miles.

 

Roland Collins

[Mateusz Bor 1084929]

Thanks Roland, I'll try to use this knowledge next time when I fly