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VATUSA better than before?

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If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.


I think that's a scary mentality to have, in terms of how it applies to this kind of situation. I happen to hold the opinion that the two people you named aren't capable of running the division/region properly, and should be replaced. (This has nothing to do with their ideas per se, just the conduct mentioned below in my post, and exemplified elsewhere in this thread.) I don't think their "solutions" are what's right for VATUSA. If that means I don't get to participate in the dialogue and be part of the solution, so be it. But I think I should be allowed to hold these opinions without being labeled a "problem," not to mention without being har[Mod - Happy Thoughts]ed privately and publicly, without people trying to coerce me into resigning, and without my job being threatened by my "superiors." It's obvious that VATUSA isn't going to allow dissent, but it can at least leave the dissenters alone rather than persecuting them.

Marc Sykes

Toronto ACC Trainee

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I wont state any names, but when I have mentioned inconsistencies in performance online with the .65 to leadership at certain facilities they cite that we have to make exceptions to the rules so that we can maintain retention. Hence my thread of many moons ago asking pilots of VATUSA to send feedback to the facilities that have feedback forms, or to simply provide a simple e-mail to the leadership so that they know I'm not the only one who is paying attention.


I don't care if you state my name, chief. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. The "inconsistencies" you spoke of at the time had no basis to them. As a matter of fact, in case you need a refresher, I asked you repeatedly for specific details regarding what you found to be lacking about the performance of my controllers, yet you could not provide any. Instead you resorted to telling me that you had "friends" who had bad experiences while flying through our airspace, yet they did not take the time to fill out one of our surveys. Your broad and generalized complaints don't serve much of a constructive purpose. Neither does your repeated mentioning of your superior knowledge of my ARTCC's airspace or your offline ATC "experience". As far as pilot feedback, 90% of ours is positive and the other 10% I deal with accordingly.


I'm not one to draging dirty laundry through a VATUSA forum..


Ha, well, you certainly had me fooled. I'm curious, to those of you that apparently have such a dislike for the current VATUSA staff, what constructive measures have been taken to resolve this issue prior to coming on here and venting about it on a public forum for the entire community to read? I certainly hope that some meetings were held and other more professional means were used to resolve these issues prior to bringing them here. For you all to bash our leadership on a public forum for the general membership to read reflects very poorly on all of us.

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My one and only post in this thread. It is not directed at any one member, but rather the whole of VATUSA. For the most part, we are all adults, it's time to sit up straight, act like men (and women if the shoe(s) fit) and quit acting like a bunch of kids in a play ground scuffle.


Realize that discussions are just that. You'll rarely find ANY activity where everyone is going to agree with everything. Decide now how decisions are going to be made, whether they be by consensus or edict, and get on with the tasks at hand. If a bad decision is made, and it is realized, correct the mistake and move FORWARD. Moving back does nothing for the group.


Final word. Zip it and Flip it [on]! Pilots are needing controllers. Controllers are needing pilots.

Fly Safe! Have Fun!

Craig Moulton



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OK, a bit long, but a chord was struck with me on this thread...


My one and only post in this thread. It is not directed at any one member, but rather the whole of VATUSA. For the most part, we are all adults, it's time to sit up straight, act like men (and women if the shoe(s) fit) and quit acting like a bunch of kids in a play ground scuffle.


After spending the last 45 minutes reading this thread, these are probably the most down to earth 3 sentences written in the last 4 pages. This thread, although genuine in its goal (at least I understand what the original author was trying to accomplish, but I might be wrong), has degenerated into nothing more than a public airing of dirty laundry.


I will say that although I may disagree vehemently with some of the proposed changes, or would fervently argue that some people don’t belong in the positions they are in, there is an underlying theme which I personally feel is being overlooked and needs addressing. These people who are in various influential positions are there as a result of one root cause: they stood up to be counted, or rather, answered a call to serve the rest of the community (read: the rest of US)


We may all disagree with them in turn, however I honestly feel (and I will admit that I may be naïve in this thought) that those people do have VATUSA’s (or their respective portion of VATUSA) best interests at heart. I do not think that those folks are out to intentionally damage VATUSA.


Where am I going? If you have ideas for change, or have specific problems, bring them up to the respective people, which is why that infrastructure is in place. If you try, and honestly feel that your issue hasn’t been resolved, then move up one rung of the VATSIM ladder. Yes, this is an all volunteer and all free network, but that doesn’t mean that it should cater to every whim or every user, as that is unrealistic in all respects.


Airing our dirty laundry on a forum like this, is indicative of only two things: First, we’re unprofessional (which is ironic, considering all the posts I’ve seen recently, which essentially boil down to pilot/controller professionalism), second, we would all rather sit around the fire and complain about how bad things are (or are being run), rather than support those that are in the position. And what is absolutely the worst, is that a valid question by the original poster (which could have been worded a little better, to promote constructive conversation, rather than what has resulted here, BUT my opinion), has evolved into nothing short of petty bickering, though veiled in “legitimate complaintâ€

-Dan Everette


Having the runway in sight just at TDZE + 100 is like Mom, Warm cookies and milk, and Christmas morning, all wrapped into one.

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Very good posts Dan and Craig. Although my own post was a bit more blunt than I usually prefer to be on here, there are some ego's on this forum that needed to be toned down a few notches. While constructive and general criticism can often be helpful, questioning the leadership of our VATUSA staff on this public forum shows a true lack of cl[Mod - Happy Thoughts] and professionalism. My recommendation to the moderators of this board is to lock this thread completely and throw away the key. If someone wants to offer constructive criticism regarding ways that we can improve the network without attacking our leadership, feel free to visit this thread: http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=5648

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd agree with Jeff's post - and he's worse than a Canadian, he's from Georgia.


If you guys want to sit around and [Mod: Lovely thoughts] and moan, that's nice, take it somewhere else, we don't care. If you have that big thing called constructive criticism, as the big guy for Atlanta's training department now, I'd love to hear it. Josh, if you feel you have concerns that need addressing, please email me anytime at [email protected]. That goes for any of you, pilots, controllers, or both. Expect absolutely no sympathy, however, if all you're going to do is tell me I'm not a very nice person, and that every single individual I've trained has the brainpower of the tangerine I'm currently eating.


As far as VATUSA is concerned, I certainly am impressed with the level of involvement we have currently. It's a major improvement from what we've had in the past, and I definitely feel positive about the level of enthusiasm we have currently. I, like everyone else, look forward to the changes that are reportedly in the works, especially at the training level. Jim Johnson is an awesome guy, and I have 100% faith in him to get things moving in a VATUSA department that has been sorely neglected over the past year. Events are also looking good - I applaud Chris Renne for making a proactive effort in another position that's been basically a title in the past. My one hope is that we can retain this staff that we have for a longer period that in the past, and that their interest level remains high throughout.


All the nice stuff being said, I'm appalled with the level of childishness and the absurd pissing contest that's going on in this thread, and many other discussions around our community. I'm 17 years old, probably in the younger tier of people in VATUSA, so feel free to take this with a pinch of salt, but some of you (not all, that would be a m[Mod - Happy Thoughts] generalization, and there are many people from this community that I have a great deal of respect for) are the whiniest, most childish, stuck-up, ignorant people I think I've ever come across. I love Craig's previous post. Sit up like men, and quit your bitching (pardon my french).


To come back to some of the things I started with, if you want to [Mod: Lovely thoughts] and moan, take it to Oprah or Dr. Phil. If you want to blow off some steam on a Friday night and have a little fun, logon to VATSIM. But please, act your age. And as far as the quality of ATC in Atlanta is concerned, my door is always open for those with a positive attitude.


I'm done with the tangerine, now.

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  • 2 years later...

Heh. Fooled me for a second. Read about three topics down and then saw the date. I "loled" for a few seconds. I've been away for a while, so my VATSIM senses have dulled a bit....looking back at this now, it's moderately humorous. I appreciate this comment right here:


My one and only post in this thread. It is not directed at any one member, but rather the whole of VATUSA. For the most part, we are all adults, it's time to sit up straight, act like men (and women if the shoe(s) fit) and quit acting like a bunch of kids in a play ground scuffle.

Steve Ogrodowski

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Mr. Moulton nailed it (again). Not sure what the motives are behind some of the recent posts. But, if it's not constructive critisism, then it starts to sound like trolling and/or whining. Neither is useful, constructive or serves a purpose other than to whine/boo hoo publicly.

Craig Merriman

VATSIM North America Region RCRP Member

Flagman - NEMA - NorthEastern Midget [Mod - Happy Thoughts]ociation

The Winged Warriors!

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NO, it fits right in with the current threads,,same old names still appear


Lately, with how you've been shrouded in your own chaotic insecure delusions from events happening to you related to this network, I'm surprised you see much of anything at all. Perhaps your post above is the one of the very few ways you prove your worth to yourself?


How about just letting what happened with you and VATUSA (and VATSIM altogether) stay in the past and move on, instead of bringing up old threads that were dead and gone. Otherwise it looks like you have too much time on your hands and prefer living and wallowing in the past.


It's funny that you bring up this thread (from 2005). Craig Moulton's post there, even as old as it is, still rings true for you now.


The More You Know[tm].



Brad Littlejohn

ZLA Senior Controller


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